FOCUS 2026: Emerging markets in motion: Where opportunities are

Kathryn Black: Good arvo.

John Dance: How's it going?

Kathryn Black: Good. This is, since I've been here, the first Australian portfolio manager we've ever had on stage. Arvo I've learned is afternoon in Aussie so good arvo, everyone. Welcome to Scottsdale, welcome to FOCUS. This is your first event with us.

John Dance: First one, my maiden one, happy to be here. Thanks for coming, thanks for the time, appreciate it.

Kathryn Black: We're thrilled to have you here because we have a very exciting event coming up, May 20th we're going to be launching the Emerging Markets Opportunity Fund and ETF here in Canada, managed by yourself. We are going to get into all things EM as well. You're a brand-new face to the audience here so let's dive in, let's learn about John Dance. Maybe you can tell everyone a little bit about yourself.

John Dance: Okay, sure. As you can tell I'm from Australia. I'm from Sydney originally. This is my almost 20th year coming up with Fidelity. I was backstage before talking to Jurrien. Actually, the first meeting I ever had at Fidelity was when I went to Boston as a junior analyst and he gave me a presentation about the world of technicals, what he was seeing so it's great to see him presenting just before me. It was pretty nostalgic, actually. Made my last 20 years run back as a flash in my mind. I started in Hong Kong as an analyst. I was looking at transportation stocks. I'd been at a company in Australia before that looking at the Australian markets. Moved to Hong Kong with Fidelity. In 2009, January, I moved to FMR when we decided to sort of just reshuffle the ownership structures. Before that it was just one big happy Fidelity and now there's Fidelity Canada and International and Fidelity in America.

I moved to the FMR and I was covering consumer globally as we built out that team. I then took over the team as a global sector leader. What that role is, really, a senior analyst, domestic, US, as well as international staples and discretionary, sort of oversight, as well as covering stocks still and running a consumer sleeve. In 2013 I moved back from London to Hong Kong and took over a fund called Pacific Basin which is developed and emerging Asia, everything from Japan to India to Australia to Korea and everything in between. I took over emerging Asia as well, just the emerging component of that, and then in 2019 took over the fund I'm currently running, Global Emerging Markets, from Sammy Simnegar when he took over Magellan. Moved to Boston in 2020 for the first time with the idea being that that was my ability to go see the other markets that I had spent less time in, be that Latin America, the Gulf countries, Eastern Europe, but instead decided to spend most of my time for the next two years in a single post code, as most people did given COVID, which was also a great experience in other ways. That's my sort of background at Fidelity. It's lots of points on the compass, lots of countries, lots of different experiences.

Kathryn Black: Absolutely. I was going to say did everyone keep up with that? You have lived all over the globe which is so perfectly fitting for you to be running an emerging markets fund. Talk to us about how those global experiences and having those real life experiences in London, in Hong Kong, in Boston, in Australia, how has that shaped your perspective as to how you manage money today?

John Dance: Look, the reason why I ended up moving to Hong Kong in the first place was in 2005, 2006, the centre of the universe, from my perspective, from an investing perspective, was what was happening in China, the development story. I think that's proven to be the case given the miracle that we've seen there over the last 20, 30 years post Deng coming in. What that's meant, though, as an aside, I've spent a lot of time outside of my home country. I was counting the other day, talking to a friend about how many countries I've been to, and it's well into the 50s now. I think there's some places in the Caribbean I could go to get that number up a little bit but most of mine are sort of in Asia, in Europe, in Latin America, things like that. What that's shown me is a couple of things.

One, there is local customs, local demand for things and that, I think, over time as markets mature translates into stock ideas. I think we've spoken before but there's a reason that Canadians don't eat Vegemite, there's a reasons Australians do, it's parochial taste. What I've started to see in different markets as I travel around the world is that the more things develop the more people are looking for those indigenous, self-developed businesses and services. What I'm really trying to find is the ones of those which I think can have long run legs, long run growth and opportunities and own them in a well diversified portfolio. I think just having boots on the ground, having time in a lot of these markets in situ has allowed me to sort of think about that in a different light, or maybe just in different angles than I would otherwise having spent my entire time in one location.

Kathryn Black: Excellent.

John Dance: I also know where all the good restaurants are in lots of these markets if you ever need any [inaudible].

Kathryn Black: You've got all the tips, that's wonderful. We're going to unpack a lot of what you just said there because there's many facets. The boots on the ground was a perfect place to start. We talk a lot about Fidelity's access, the global reach that portfolio managers do have access to. Emerging markets, I would think, you are tapping into all of the offices on a consistent basis. How do you manage that and how do you work with the team to find all of those opportunities that are really meeting your process?

John Dance: I guess that's the other point I didn't mention. Having spent a lot of time in situ with my colleagues in London or in Hong Kong or in Tokyo, having been there quite frequently in the past as well, I know them personally, I know then really well. The way that I think about what we do as a team is really shots on goal. The great thing about Fidelity...

Kathryn Black: A hockey reference, that's good with a bunch of Canadians.

John Dance: I should have used a cricket reference, next time. We have the advantage of having people everywhere. We have large numbers of analysts and research teams and support groups for that. Therefore, the way I think about the world is that alpha happens not at the point, it's not an analyst sitting down on their own and doing work, it's at the edges. It's in those interactions between myself and analysts, between themselves. I spend a lot of time internally advocating just to increase that connective tissue because it does mean more opportunities to talk about the cross-correlations across what people are saying. Most of the best ideas I've had as an analyst, as an investor, have not been me sitting in a room reading balance sheets. I do that as well but it comes from interacting with management teams, taking ideas I have learned from somewhere else, that dialogue internally, as well as with management, with the deeper channel and understanding where the next opportunities are happening and validating existing ones that are in the fund.

Kathryn Black: So you're portfolio manager and connectivity maximalist, is what I got out of that.

John Dance: I try and be. I have a presentation I do internally sometimes just trying to talk about dialogue internally, why it's important and why we should try and make it habitual. Now, it's harder with the time zones and stuff so sometimes it's just being a maven for that and trying to improve that connective tissue but for me that's really important because I do think that that's how we ... with this sparse universe of stocks that we're looking at in terms of diversity, geographically sparse but 11,000 different names in general, finding the ideas is a function of just getting as much out there as we can and putting it all together.

Kathryn Black: Excellent. You just mentioned the different time zones. Your days must be crazy. You must be working all hours. When do you sleep, when do you eat, what does it look like?

John Dance: I really love 2:30 to 4:30 in the afternoon. That's the time when most of my markets are closed and I can see my kids and hang out. That's the one quiet piece of calm. Especially Fridays because then everything's closed by the time I get there. Sunday evenings is a little different. I start Sunday evenings with some calls usually. I'm very bookended in terms of ... I try and spend as much of my time as I can doing two things. One is talking and communicating with the team and one is meeting companies. As I say internally and externally I'll meet any company twice, more if I can. That goes for US domestic companies, it goes for stocks in Canada as well as my own markets. I'm just trying to build as much of a [indecipherable] as I can and understand the long term sort of strategic positioning of what I'm trying to do. Being with others, doing that work is sort of how I like to spend my time.

There's obviously time alone, trying to think about stocks, put things together, get my ideas together in Excel spreadsheets, risk management and what have you, that's how I like to spend as much of my time as possible. It means early morning phone calls with Hong Kong, China, Korea, Taiwan, evening the same, and in the middle either things into Europe or into the US markets or with our analysts in Boston or macro or whatever the day brings. I have a little bit less choice than others in some of that because of the diversity of regions. There's lots of different things that come up through the days, you could imagine, in different countries. Sometimes it's addressing those but most of the time, that's how my ideal sort of time is spent.

Kathryn Black: Connectivity and calendar maximalist is what I'm hearing.

John Dance: Yeah, and just speaking to companies, as many as I can.

Kathryn Black: Excellent. Let's dive into what the advisors in the room here could expect from your portfolio. When you look at the emerging markets let's talk about characteristics or key themes that you look that are really of interest to you today.

John Dance: Let me just frame that quickly with my philosophy because I think it's important. Since I've been a portfolio manager my main focus has been on what I call structural growth. I label that as superior business models married to improving customer value propositions. If we take that sort of Buffett-Munger idea of a moat, I'm looking for great management teams, I'm looking for great products, I'm looking for a large area under the curve which the company is able to maintain through the quality of their business. For me, that needs to be adjoined to an ability ... unless you're a natural monopoly or an earned monopoly it needs to join to an ability to continue to improve what you have. It could be making the products cheaper every year, it could be making them better, it could be some sort of combination on that Pareto curve, it could be adding adjacent services or products and widening your TAM for your customers, that's really important.

The reason I think about that as important, the final part of my philosophy is owning them in a well diversified portfolio. There's a lack of economic correlation from those sorts of businesses. The Polish supermarket that is in the fund at the moment who started as a meat abattoir, and they make really great Polish sausage if you're ever in Poland, the management team there does not wake up and care what Taiwan Semiconductor. Taiwan Semiconductor doesn't really wake up and think about what the Brazilian SAP equivalent local player in Brazil is doing, and they don't really mind what's happening with drilling in the Middle East. There's a fundamental lack of economic correlation amongst these sorts of businesses because they're really focused on making their businesses better.

Kathryn Black: So you put the pieces of the puzzle together.

John Dance: Correct. I'm trying to find as many of those sorts of stocks as I can and from them select a well-diversified portfolio that represents emerging markets that I think is going to continue to grow in a three to five year view. It's bottoms-up but with that sort of overlay of why I'm doing it philosophically.

Kathryn Black: Excellent. Structural growth is really the key and the heart of what you're looking at. Excellent. Based off of that, and as you're looking to build this diversified portfolio, let's talk about themes, let's talk about the areas that you're taking the portfolio in in the sense of what you're interested in today, what you are seeing in the market.

John Dance: Jurrien before talked about having a degree of international, a brush of international. I guess I'm that brush. The thing I would say about emerging markets which is, I think, very important to understand is one of the most important themes that I'm seeing is the AI thing. Taiwan and Korea and China, to some extent, are large parts of the benchmark and are really the coalface of what's happening on the physical hardware side of the AI movement. If we take the stocks like Nvidia or Google and the data centre commits that they're putting here in the US down, the chips that they are making, the memory, the connectors, a lot of the physical assets that make up a data centre, are being made in places like the fabs of Taiwan Semi, one which is just up the road here outside of Phoenix. It's made in the fabs of Samsung and SK Hynix. It's the related ecosystems that have evolved over the last 20, 30 years around both of those things, and then this sort of disruptive idea of indigenous tech development in China as well. That's a very, very big, important theme.

What's interesting about that as well is it's a different sort of valuation structure to what we've seen here in the US. Korea has remained on a multiple below, significantly below the US. I was at a global macro conference in December last year and the way that people were phrasing it is that you get the memory stocks in Korea and you get a two for one, you get rest of the market for free given the valuation differences at that time, some of which have been alleviated by the upward moves in Korea. The hardware side of AI is a really important thing.

The second theme I would highlight, which I think of as mission critical to what I'm trying to do, and Jurrien highlighted something about this that was important was lack of correlation with China. I still think of China as a very important component of investing in emerging markets and the opportunity set that I face there. The way I like to phrase it is something called the electric slide, the confluence of power semiconductors, battery technology, electric motors. The semiconductor industry in general has meant that we've seen a 90% improvement in efficiency of a lot of different products. You can now get EV powered speedboats and some airplanes and drones and cars. We just saw the big deal between BYD and Canada, right, with China and Canada and BYD beginning to sell there. BYD in Australia is now the largest car company in terms of sales. We're seeing the cost function, meaning that in the world of atoms China has an export capability that we haven't seen previously.

Kathryn Black: You're on a great topic because China is, obviously, a huge part of your benchmark and what you look at. Would those be the opportunities that you're seeing in China?

John Dance: It's some of them.

Kathryn Black: Some of them. Continue, you can elaborate.

John Dance: I think of it in three worlds. The world of atoms is exactly that. China is now 50% of the world's manufacturing. It's not just tables and the things that you buy at Walmart, it now runs the gamut and in many circumstances it's the best of breed. I'm looking all across that sort of quality, cheap, Pareto curve in terms of products and opportunities as a consequence. I own companies that make industrial gas valves, I own companies in battery technology, I own companies in heavy power equipment or EVs, so it runs the gamut. That's one.

The second is the world of molecules. China's done two things in the last three to five years. The first is they've taken the red tape down for drug development by, let's call it, a thousand days at the beginning and end of the process. It's a large population, it's a largely under drugged, unmet need population. What we've seen is an acceleration in drug development in China in collaboration with Western pharmaceutical companies. Now we're seeing the proportion of drugs developed in China on the rise as well. In the world of molecules they're becoming more important.

The area where the jury's still out is the world of electrons in that semiconductor AI space. I think there will be a home indigenous market for the semiconductors that they're making to that end and the services definitely. I look at the Chinese internet providers as playing a very vital role in deploying AI into that market domestically. There's a billion people there, they all want some sort of AI solution to help book their travel just like everybody else. That's a role but then the question is still outstanding on where is China in the foundational AI space? Do they have the tech stack to be able to locally develop foundational models? I think that's a question that's still out there and it's one that I continue to do a lot of work on.

Kathryn Black: I feel like I'm back in my Science 101 with atoms, molecules and electrons are really the three opportunities you're seeing in China. Very exciting. Let's flip the script, risks. There's been difference of opinions in navigating that investment space. What do you see as risks?

John Dance: I think the risks are the same as they have been for the last three to five years. The first risk which is important is what I would call the overarching nature of the Chinese market, which is that it's a centrally planned economy, first and foremost. That creates two sets of opportunities. The first is that sometimes the visible hand of government can lead to overproduction. We think of their amount of steel production and the exports that have happened as an example of that. It also leads to demand massively outstripping supply in other areas. The global pharmaceutical companies will always talk about the unmet need for drugs in China, as an example. Macadamia nuts is another one I hear about a lot, there's demand for that. It runs the gamut and it's really just about supply-demand imbalances. Property is the most obvious example over the last three to five years, and the intervention is there.

Then there is that overlay with global relations, the trade policies between China and the US. To be honest, I still think that's up in the air. We have a meeting at the very highest level of government between Trump and Xi sometime later this month, I believe. Who knows what will be resolved there. The President of the US talks about there being a G2. In terms of industrial might that's definitely the case as well as in, I guess, some areas of influence. Those remain the biggest areas of contention. The final one is just to come back to that housing issue. We still see negative pricing there. I speak about the Chinese economy as being two speeds.

The examples I give is if you'd invested in, I guess, I could say Phoenix but I always say Austin, if you invested in Austin in 2009 versus Detroit you had very different outcomes. I kind of see that difference emerging in China, too. There are areas geographically that are doing fantastically. If you ever get a chance to go to Shenzhen, it looks like a city of the future. It's clean, modernized, autonomous vehicles, great hip coffee shops, cool bands. There's other parts of China that are struggling like we would have seen in Detroit in terms of just a reduction in productive capacity, demand and influence as a result.

Kathryn Black: So interesting. You can get a Waymo in Phoenix and also in certain areas of China.

John Dance: [indecipherable] or WeRide are the ones that...

Kathryn Black: Excellent. Covering the key themes let's talk about specific sectors. I know we can unpack a lot here but which ones are you really feeling the highest conviction around right now?

John Dance: I've spent a lot of time inside and outside of work on the AI theme.

Kathryn Black: Actually, yeah, tell us about your exciting story because in 2017 you did something very cool.

John Dance: On my paternity leave I built a pretty bad version of, back then we would call machine learning.

Kathryn Black: A V1.

John Dance: Yeah, and the idea simply being Peter Lynch is a great influence on me. The first book I ever read on investing was my mom's copy of his work. He said, if you turn over 10 stones you might find one good idea. If you turn 100 you might find 10. The game is they who turn over the most stones wins. The shower thought I had was what if I turned over all the stones at once? If this is my investment philosophy I could teach something to identify things that looked like a fuzzier, wider version of that. I made a pretty bad version of that. The machine learning team made a better version of, which we call Oasis internally. I still use to this day to sort of ... the emerging markets is interesting that the number of stocks in that benchmark has gone up over time. The number stocks in my investable universe, because a large part of China is not in the benchmark, in what's called the A-share market, but are still very large and liquid Chinese companies, has increased as well.

I have the problem of having lots and lots of stocks and less people per stock. It's about maximizing the ability to see if a stock might meet my philosophy or not. When I'm going to a conference and I'm seeing 100 companies which of these ones am I going to spend my time on, which ones ... it's a sorting algorithm problem. We tried to solve that and then from that we've leveraged a generalized interest in AI, which was very lucky insofar as that I learned about the power of compute, the power laws in scaling. I learned about sparse matrices, I learned about some of the ability to read academic papers in AI, and sort of try and keep up on what's happening, which has led to some important investment conclusions for the fund.

Kathryn Black: That's so interesting that that was built almost a decade ago and we're seeing this come to fruition in more day-to-day lives, but yet you've had that, call it, competitive edge for the last little bit to help you focus your attention.

John Dance: Nerd advantage, right, I call it.

Kathryn Black: Use all the advantages, nerd or not. That's fantastic.

John Dance: It's been great. For me it's great because I get to see a lot of these companies, I get to understand what's happening. It's one of the great things about being in Boston. There is this relationship globally on tech. It's another point about China, half of the world's computer scientists are coming out of Chinese universities. Some of them were working at Nvidia or Open AI or what have you and a lot of them are in China. Ss a consequence of that there's this interconnectivity globally. What that means is read-across. Some of the opportunities are in the US, and for my US colleagues, and some of them are in Taiwan or China or Korea or Malaysia or what have you, and they invest for emerging markets and therefore for me.

Kathryn Black: It's so exciting. In your model does it also help you decipher what's happening on the macro scale? We have geopolitical tensions, we have tariffs, as Jurrien talked about both ends of the tail firing at once. How do you look at that in your process?

John Dance: It doesn't. Maybe one day. The macro of emerging markets is something unique in and of itself. It's 80% of the world's PPP-adjusted GDP. It's 25% of the world's market cap. As a result, I run the complete gamut in terms of economic outcomes. Jurrien was talking about 4.5% inflation as the US target. The inflation numbers that I run in terms of the markets that I look at is deflation in China, hyperinflation in Turkey, extended inflation in places like Brazil, and everything in between. I have a menu, I have the buffet of every single economic outcome you can imagine.

Kathryn Black: How do you process that?

John Dance: Triage would be one part of the strategy. By that I mean there have been examples in emerging markets of persistent problems, largely caused by hyperinflation. China's deflation is a unique thing within emerging markets. I saw some of that in Japan for a very long period of time. Turkey is an example, Argentina before it, or South Africa, have been markets where the macro trumps the micro so sometimes bottoms-up stock picking is made almost too hard in certain industries because you can't really understand how a DCF works when the cost of capital is 45%. Those are the things I'm looking for, those large downside shocks.

The second side of that, which is not triage, is really looking for the macro structural opportunities. I think China presented a very strong one of those from 2005 to, with some lumps, until 2018, 2019. India is another one of those sort of examples of just continued growth. A smaller example has been Poland or Greece over the last three to five years, post-recovery from the European crisis. Trying to find those structural top-down stories. The UAE, until very recently, would have been another example. Saudi  with its development and social agenda has also been one until what we've seen in the Middle East. I have geopolitical risks, the obvious examples being in the middle East, in the Ukraine, I have economic range, I'm really just trying to sort between those and navigate, thread the needle for the best bottoms-up ideas that I can hang my hat on, overlaid with some of those structural stories both to the downside and to the upside.

Kathryn Black: Is it staying focused on the bottom-up that helps you navigate this turmoil, if you will? Like you said, that's a really broad spectrum that your attention could be diverted by a variety of indicators, headlines, you name it. Is that what keeps your eye on the prize, if will?

John Dance: The structural story was one, two, and three. I have to think about the macro. Luckily, I have a whole team of people from all over the world who work at Fidelity to call on to ask questions, be that frontier, be that India, you name it.

Kathryn Black: Excellent. We'd be remiss if we didn't talk about currency because EM, obviously, in all those markets you have so many different currencies in which they're operated. How do you manage that? How do you look at currency within your portfolio?

John Dance: The first and foremost thing is I don't hedge so I am not using financial instruments to take directional positions or views on currencies. I see those as an outcome of the stocks. I am always weighing up is this the right thing to own given the upside I see the stock but baking in some view on the currency. What I would say is the thing that's changed, I think, the most in emerging markets, outside of just the inflow of China into the benchmark, is the change in the currency environment for emerging markets. If we go back 10 to 15 years ago and you looked at the components of the benchmark, it was very different without China. Currency played a much bigger role. Turkey was bigger, Russia was in the benchmark, Argentina was bigger and in the benchmark, Brazil was bigger and in the benchmark, it's still in the benchmark,  the Indian currency was higher. These were all volatile currencies.

What you've seen over that period, China coming in with a dirty PEG.  The RMB trades largely within a range. Taiwan and Korea have matured as markets and are less volatile and are largely in US dollars in terms of the market cap of things that they sell so that changes the dynamics of how those benchmarks operated vis-a-vis the US dollar. The Middle East has gotten bigger and is a PEG to the US dollar largely. Then we have things like Greece and Poland. Poland is its own currency but close to the euro. Greece is the euro. We've seen the overall volatility of emerging market currencies come down, albeit it has still depreciated over that last five year window against the US dollar. That's been the major change. I think about it at the margin less than I did at the beginning of my career just because the volatility structure has changed of the components of the benchmark.

Kathryn Black: Understood. You just named a bunch of different countries within your benchmark. We've talked about China, outside of China where are you favouring right now, and where you may be staying away from?

John Dance: The situation in the Middle East is probably the biggest changing thing that I see at the moment, I think most people would say, it's on the news headlines every day. The way I treat that is quite simple. Every week that we continue to see conflict in the Gulf I assume that we're going to be extending it by another month. I have to think about that from a risk perspective. Again, if you go around the wheelhouse of countries — the inverse of that, sorry, is what I would call the Southern Cone. That's Southern Brazil, maybe Argentina, it's still small on the bench given the hyperinflationary environment it as in for some time and therefore smaller in the bench, places like Chile and Peru seem far away from the conflict, long resources, politically more stable than they have been in a long while so that is of interest. Then it's really that singles and doubles story. It's the best businesses in Eastern Europe, the best businesses still in the Middle East regardless of what we're seeing there. It's finding the right ideas from the bottoms-up as opposed to me having very large overarching views on countries.

Kathryn Black: Excellent. When you talk about emerging markets I think there can maybe be a misconception out there around risk or volatility or just taking on a little bit more fear, if you will, to getting people out of their comfort zone. What would you say is the largest misconception when it comes to emerging markets from your perspective?

John Dance: I don't think people understand the gap that I talked about earlier. That gap, this is where most of the people are from a PPP adjusted part of the globe, it is now, like I said, 75% of the world's GDP. The increase in intra-EM trade is 48% of total. When we talk about things like the trade war here in the United States with places like China, I think what is missed often is that there are other markets to whom they will sell. If places like the US or North America or Australia are buying their goods from somewhere else to avoid that reliance on China there is a marginal person buying those things from China as a result, or from India, or India to South Africa, or India into the Middle East. This connective tissue amongst the markets which I look at is only going to continue to increase and I think that's a really large opportunity.

Kathryn Black: Excellent. We only have a couple minutes left but I think it's so exciting, you've been investing a long time, this is our first time seeing you here on the Canadian landscape so it's been wonderful to get to know you. I always think it is interesting, PMs have evolved over their tenure, their style evolves, their process evolves, what has been an investment lesson that perhaps you've learned along the way that's made you into the portfolio manager that you are today?

John Dance: I think about my philosophy as being tectonic in its movement. It's very evolutionary. My process has probably moved a little faster than that as opportunities come. The first was really, to me, understanding the power of great businesses. I started as a shipping and airline analyst, which you may or may not know, but that's pretty cyclical industries at the mercy of high energy prices or low energy prices, supply, demand. I moved into covering some of the better consumer companies on the planet and seeing what the power of good management teams married ... really focused on improving their own business and what that can mean for long-run earnings power and therefore for the stock price. In seeing that and then seeing the fact that the markets which I cover are just so broad in terms of the number of stocks, it made me realize those two things.

One, owning as many of those as possible in a well constructed portfolio can really push me up and to the left on that sort of Markowitz Space in terms of return and risk. Then the evolution has been leveraging AI, trying to get layered S-curves of that now. How do I start to incorporate more of that in my process? How do I really focus on improving the signal in what I'm trying to do and reducing the noise. My hobby when I'm not doing this is playing music. I had an uncle who was a recording engineer and he always talked about signal to noise ratios. It's really about just getting SNR improved. How do I improve my signal, how do I reduce the noise?

Kathryn Black: Absolutely. Maybe that's why it's ambient music, right, that you're into?

John Dance: Yeah, that's probably more pro noise than signal but that's half the fun.

Kathryn Black: I love that. We are at time but just any final thoughts for the group as your mandate is coming out in the next couple of weeks?

John Dance: No, I just ... thank you very much for the time and the opportunity to speak to you today. Always happy for follow ups. It's never a dull moment in emerging markets. There's always something amazing happening, something terrifying happening somewhere else. My job is really to act as a cognitive funnel for that and focus on the opportunities and provide them to the fundholders. That's how I spend most of my time.

Kathryn Black: Excellent. Please reach out to your wholesaler if you do have any more questions about John's fund. John, thank you for being here with us today.

John Dance: Thanks for having me.