FidelityConnects: Future of advice – AI possibilities with Mark Schmehl and Annie Wang

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Without further ado I'm delighted to be joined in studio by

 

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portfolio manager, Mark Schmehl and Fidelity Director of Private Equity,

 

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Annie Wang. Mark, Annie, wonderful to see you both here.

 

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Now, Mark you're here from San Francisco via Montreal.

 

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You were at a client event.

 

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Annie, you are ... and actually, I just wanted to mention before we get to you,

 

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Annie, you and I had a great discussion in Palm Beach recently to thousands of

 

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advisors through that forum on your funds.

 

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We're not going to talk about that today. We're gonna talk about thematic AI.

 

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I'm really looking forward to that.

 

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Now, everybody knows who you are and Annie, you're going to be famous after

 

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this video. Could you please tell everybody what your role is and what your

 

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responsibility is at Fidelity?

 

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Absolutely. I'm based in the San Francisco office along with Mark.

 

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I'm on the private equity team and, really, my focus is AI

 

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startups.

 

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Mark, I'd like to start with you then from a key question.

 

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Let's clear some stuff up. There's a lot of talk today about an AI bubble.

 

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Now, Bill Gates would say that we are in a bubble, so would Michael Burry, and

 

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then Jay Powell would say, we're not.

 

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Can we start there before we get into the whole theme of AI?

 

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Sure. It's very topical, the market is wrestling with that as we speak.

 

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I think that the easiest way for me to address that is there

 

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are two camps. There is a very bullish

 

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engineering camp who sees the application and they're

 

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so excited to be working on it and they are saying look at all the things I can

 

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do with AI that I could never do before.

 

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Oh my goodness, I'm so excited.

 

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Then there's the finance camp which is

 

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very skeptical and saying this has gone too far too fast and I don't think you

 

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engineers know what you're talking about, and it's clearly a bubble because my

 

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experience tells me it's a bubble.

 

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I think that what you have to answer for yourself as an investor is who

 

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do I want to believe, the finance geeks in Wall Street or the

 

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engineering geeks in Silicon Valley?

 

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For me, the engineers are seeing this more clearly than the finance guys are.

 

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They see the applications, they're in it, they're doing it.

 

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I'm going to go with engineers on this one.

 

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My view is it does seem a little overheated but I do not

 

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believe it's a bubble as we speak now.

 

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If we think of the chart room, which you're a user of, there's always

 

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little retracements within the market.

 

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Overall, the theme is there, it's powerful, maybe some things are overheated,

 

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whatever, but that's what portfolio management's all about.

 

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Nothing has changed. Fundamentals haven't changed.

 

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If anything, they're getting better so I don't know.

 

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Annie, this is what the analyst side is all about as well.

 

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As director of private equities talk to us about the importance of the private

 

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space within this realm.

 

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Absolutely. This is where a lot of innovation is happening.

 

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We're talking to the engineers and understanding where the big ideas are.

 

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It's really my job and my team's job to be on the ground, meeting founders,

 

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talking to people that are building the space and almost trying

 

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to serve as a bridge between that community with the portfolio

 

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managers and people who spend most of the time in the public markets to

 

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understand what could happen in the future.

 

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You're based in San Francisco, what size team are you part of?

 

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Our team is actually quite small.

 

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The private equity team is about 10 people but we're very

 

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fortunate in that we're able to work with portfolio managers like Mark and lots

 

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of peers on the public side who are constantly thinking about AI as well to

 

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collaborate together.

 

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And then of course you have the whole universe of Fidelity to be working with

 

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and drawing on and contributing to as well, not just in San Francisco with your

 

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key team. Mark, how do you work with the private equity team?

 

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I talk to them every day. Annie sits right across from me.

 

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The rest of her team is dispersed around the world.

 

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We have Vishal in San Francisco as well.

 

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I think that they have just the greatest window on the future

 

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and they see what's happening before everyone else does.

 

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The themes, the smartest people are in the private world.

 

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They're working on things we've never even heard of before.

 

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It's just a lens on what's coming at us.

 

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In the public markets you're always dealing with the future, in the private

 

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markets you're living in the future, so to speak.

 

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From that standpoint it's a great information source.

 

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It's really great to talk to these innovative founders.

 

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Annie will come to me every day and go, have you heard of this company?

 

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She does this, what was the name of the company? I can't remember.

 

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Have you ever heard of his company? No.

 

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Do you know anyone who uses it? No.

 

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This is the kind of back and forth we have all the time.

 

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Then we try and figure out does anyone like this company, do they use it?

 

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It is incredibly valuable and being based in San Francisco is a

 

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huge, huge edge for all things private.

 

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Annie, you're discovering things every day.

 

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Yeah, absolutely.

 

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I just want to continue on the background for AI before we get into use cases.

 

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You told me in 2022 somebody on your team saw a

 

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posting on a billboard or something on a lamp post that said there was an AI

 

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conference and that got your interest.

 

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That was you, Annie.

 

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Yeah, it was this small warehouse in the middle of San Francisco,

 

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Cerebral Valley, a neighbourhood had been renamed to Cerebral Valley,

 

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and it was incredible. We had no idea, it was just something we heard about.

 

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You saw into the future.

 

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Well, yeah.

 

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I mean, it was pretty remarkable, I think.

 

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When I joined Fidelity three years ago ChatGPT was not

 

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a thing. It hadn't even been created then.

 

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No one had heard of OpenAI.

 

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Being in San Francisco is so valuable.

 

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I had actually gone to business school in the Bay Area and the first time I

 

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learned about OpenAI was actually a few months before I joined Fidelity,

 

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and it was my friend's Instagram.

 

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She's a founder asking for early invite coach, GPT-3,

 

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which is pretty remarkable. I think it's just so much of the benefits of being

 

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in San Francisco and just hearing about what founders and

 

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engineers are excited about.

 

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It's been a pretty cool journey.

 

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You have to be open to every medium, if you will, as far as information that's

 

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coming at you and thinking how could this be additive to a portfolio manager,

 

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how could it be additive for our advisors and their clients?

 

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It's pretty fascinating.

 

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Everybody knows the Mag Seven but we're really talking about the incubation of

 

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the next wave. How do you weed out those companies that

 

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aren't going to survive, or that you estimate aren't going to survive?

 

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That's a fantastic question and it's something that we think a lot about.

 

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I think about

 

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where I've spent time and the team has spent time in terms of these AI

 

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companies. There's so many of them. I think if I were to go back

 

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to 2022, that's when the ChatGPT moment happened, and I

 

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think we all kind of said to ourselves, huh, this is something that we should

 

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pay attention to. It was really hard to figure out who the winners and losers

 

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were at that point but I think we knew that this AI thing was going to be big.

 

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I really spent a lot of time at the infrastructure level looking at the picks

 

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and shovels.

 

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We've invested in names like CoreWeave which is a next gen AI cloud or

 

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VAST Data which is focused on compute — sorry, storage

 

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for next gen AI workloads.

 

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If we were to fast forward today there's just a lot of focus on the

 

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applications and the use cases of AI.

 

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I really think of that as kind of our journey of kind of moving up the stack as

 

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we learn more and about AI.

 

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You go as broad also to look at inputs to a data centre.

 

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For example, I hear that these things are very droney and they put them in

 

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backyards of peoples' neighbourhoods and you need insulation for the

 

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cooling stacks. There's lots of companies that can be inputs to

 

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a structure like that, that provides a lot of opportunity for you.

 

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Absolutely. In terms of the AI supply chain that's definitely something that

 

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we're paying attention to. We also have someone who really specializes in

 

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the semi space, Adam Benjamin, who spends a lot of time there too.

 

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Now, what are use cases of AI in your view, from what you do

 

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but also what our clients can take away?

 

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Absolutely. think there's a few that really come up.

 

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On the consumer side

 

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ChatGPT as a personal assistant and people just use it for so many different

 

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things from finding Christmas gifts

 

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to improving my writing. I think on the consumer's side you've really seen a

 

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lot of traction there. On the enterprise side coding is something

 

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that has emerged as a killer use case this year.

 

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I also see a lot of traction with customer success.

 

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There's just a lot of startups that are building the

 

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space to build more specialized agents for certain domains.

 

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I think it's still early but definitely a lot of smart people working in the

 

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space.

 

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Early is a key point because there's a lot still to be learned, and the way

 

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that it's learned is by trial and error.

 

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When EVs came out, autonomous driving, there was a lot of trial and error.

 

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We won't get into that. But that's true with AI in general, isn't it?

 

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There's a lot that needs to be out there in the world for the

 

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companies to learn more from so a lot still to go.

 

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Yes, definitely.

 

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It's in its infancy. Why don't we go to the journey of a

 

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private company as well?

 

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As far as the development of a private company to then public, is that

 

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something that you want to talk to the customers about?

 

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Absolutely. The way we think about it is we want to meet

 

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the big, important public companies of tomorrow as soon as we can

 

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and invest as soon as we gain conviction that

 

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they'll be an important company.

 

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Thank you. Mark, how do we co-exist with super intelligence?

 

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Good question.

 

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Just a brief answer is fine.

 

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I don't know that we're going to see super intelligence.

 

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I'm just going to be happy with a better tool, generally speaking.

 

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I think that that's how I think about AI.

 

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It's a better tool for a lot of different use cases.

 

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As Annie was saying, we don't really know where they are.

 

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They're planting seeds everywhere. They're taking their super intelligence and

 

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throwing it at all these different problems.

 

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There's other ones that I

 

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can't even remember all the names anymore that are attacking coding.

 

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We just don't know where it's going to really work.

 

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I think the one way to think about AI is this is

 

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the worst it's ever going to be.

 

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It's just going to keep getting better.

 

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We know from having watched it over the last three or four years that the

 

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capabilities of ChatGPT or Anthropic gets amazingly

 

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different over two years.

 

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As we throw more compute at it and the algorithms get better it just feels as

 

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though this is going to continue to get better.

 

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I don't know that we get the super intelligence but what about super tool?

 

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It's going to be a super tool and it's going to allow us to do a lot of things.

 

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That's less ominous if it's thought of as a super tool versus super

 

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intelligence because we want to work alongside.

 

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Do you see the day where you have a robot walking around in your house washing

 

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your dishes?

 

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Yes. Yes. We are currently looking at robotic companies in the Bay Area.

 

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It's funny, they're all working on folding.

 

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This is really funny, there's ten different companies, they're all working on

 

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folding clothes with the arms of the robot.

 

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I think that robotics is not a hardware

 

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problem, I think it's a software problem.

 

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The brain of the robot has to be good enough so we need the

 

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intelligence to get there. You can sort of see the runway to getting there.

 

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I don't think it's outrageous to think that we may have robots in our

 

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homes in the next 10 years or 15, depending on supply chain and whatnot.

 

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You can see what they're doing and you can sort of see the path.

 

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It's sort of like it took, I don't know how long it took Waymo to get going, 15

 

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years from beginning to where it is now, maybe 15

 

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years for robotics, maybe not, I don't know but you can see the path there.

 

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You're a big fan of Waymo, I'm sure you are as well, and I am as well when I go

 

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down to Scottsdale. I'm sure all of our clients are wondering what is that, or

 

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perhaps they've tried.

 

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Annie, when you're meeting with companies do you hear a lot about jobs as far

 

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as people saying is this going to be a cost for my job, am I going to lose

 

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a job? Is it taking away jobs or is additive, or just replacing

 

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the way people do things?

 

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I think that's something that definitely comes up. These questions

 

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are being asked of the companies that are building in this space as well.

 

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I really think that people are very thoughtful in terms of

 

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how to build these tools and

 

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virtual collaborators. Just based on

 

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my own experience I would not trust AI to completely do something

 

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autonomously but it does help me be more succinct

 

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or help me with better decision making or do grunt work that I don't really

 

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want to do myself and frees up my time to do more interesting work.

 

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I think this human-in-the-loop model really resonates

 

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both with people that are using these tools and also the companies that are

 

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building the space.

 

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Excellent. Mark, do you see jobs as something as

 

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an evolution, that it's really about you're not going to be out of

 

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work, but it's really a shift in what it is that you do?

 

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The best example I can give on this is my son is a software engineer and

 

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they're the pointy end of the spear in terms of being replaced by AI.

 

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When we talk he just gets more productive.

 

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Who doesn't want a more productive employee?

 

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We are all in the business of competing with our competitors so if my employees

 

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get 10x more competitive and you don't I'm going to beat you

 

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at the business game. For me, I do feel as though we're

 

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going through a transition where companies are trying to figure out their human

 

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resource needs but I think that the smart companies are saying AI is

 

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a tool for productivity improvement, not a tool cost

 

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reduction, therefore, I'm going to invest as much

 

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as possible in people who know how to use AI to make my productivity go up.

 

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I think not everybody's there yet.

 

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There's still a lot of companies that are in the I'm going to use AI and fire

 

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all these people. I think the smart companies are like, I'm going to go hire a

 

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bunch of these people and make them way more productive and then I'm going to

 

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out-compete my competition.

 

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We're in this moment and I think you have two different strategies and I do

 

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believe that the productivity is the key part of the strategy.

 

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Ultimately, the most value in the market is ascribed to productivity,

 

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not to cost savings. If we paid for cost savings we'd all own like a

 

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bank. But no, we pay for productivity so we would all rather own Google.

 

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That's what's more valuable to society, is productivity enhancement not cost

 

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reduction.  I think that's where we're going.

 

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Your son is set up well now.

 

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Yeah, yeah.

 

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That's good, good to know. Productivity enhancement, from tools that

 

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you come across where our advisors may be inspired,

 

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really there's tools that help them become more efficient in what they do, they

 

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can take on more business, more clients.

 

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Can you talk about any of those types of tools that come across your desk?

 

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I don't use any of them. I don't know, Annie, have you seen any of the finance

 

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tools that are out there?

 

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We use our internal tools, they've been quite helpful.

 

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But thematically it's really about efficiency and productivity within the

 

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business.

 

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Imagine if you're getting your emails and you have an AI bot

 

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scanning through your emails and saying client XYZ just sent me this

 

15:22.955 --> 15:26.725

request for whatever it was, and it's some random paper trail I have to spend

 

15:26.725 --> 15:28.928

five days chasing out.

 

15:28.928 --> 15:32.932

The AI should be able to take that request, know what it is, find the paper, do

 

15:32.932 --> 15:36.335

the work and send it back, and you don't have to do it.

 

15:36.335 --> 15:39.204

Theoretically, that is what you're going to see in AI.

 

15:39.204 --> 15:43.142

A lot of this paper chasing, many people have paper chasing aspects of their

 

15:43.142 --> 15:47.079

job. Those should be solvable from a workflow standpoint by

 

15:47.079 --> 15:51.016

AI. I think we're going see that and I think we're going to see that faster

 

15:51.016 --> 15:55.020

than we expect. I also think we are not going to

 

15:55.020 --> 15:58.424

necessarily buy a software platform to do that.

 

15:58.424 --> 16:02.461

It's going to be the AI will just do it on its own and you won't need to go get

 

16:02.461 --> 16:06.598

a separate AI. You can just do it through Chat GPT or Claude or whatever.

 

16:06.598 --> 16:09.802

I see.

 

16:09.802 --> 16:14.039

Annie, New York Times recently had an article on AI versus

 

16:14.039 --> 16:17.643

AI, and what it had to do with was what's real anymore?

 

16:17.643 --> 16:21.046

Do you have any thoughts, and I'd love to ask you this as well, Mark, just on

 

16:21.046 --> 16:24.817

how should advisors work with their clients on what to believe, what not to

 

16:24.817 --> 16:28.687

believe. For instance, if I saw you on TV during the World Series with a Blue

 

16:28.687 --> 16:32.124

Jays jersey, I'd know it's you, but if you had a Dodgers jersey on I'd think

 

16:32.124 --> 16:34.126

maybe that was constructed by AI.

 

16:34.126 --> 16:38.097

Annie, do you have thoughts from

 

16:38.097 --> 16:42.167

a cybercrime standpoint, what's believable and what's not, and maybe messages

 

16:42.167 --> 16:44.603

that advisors could pass to their clients.

 

16:44.603 --> 16:48.607

I think it's such a fantastic question. I really think you need everyone around

 

16:48.607 --> 16:51.210

the ecosystem to be working on this.

 

16:51.210 --> 16:55.481

I think the model companies are actually doing a lot of work on

 

16:55.481 --> 16:59.685

this front. For example, OpenAI restructured last week

 

16:59.685 --> 17:04.123

and their nonprofit made a $25 billion commitment to two areas.

 

17:04.123 --> 17:08.060

One is for health and curing diseases  and the second area is for

 

17:08.060 --> 17:13.098

AI resilience, which is kind of like this next gen ecosystem

 

17:13.098 --> 17:18.070

to think about some of the issues that we will face.

 

17:18.070 --> 17:21.774

I think it's evolving but there's definitely a lot of thought intentionality on

 

17:21.774 --> 17:23.075

this.

 

17:23.075 --> 17:25.377

So there is policing, do you sense?

 

17:25.377 --> 17:26.912

Mark, what are your thoughts on that?

 

17:26.912 --> 17:31.250

I think it's a fast-moving area that nobody really has good answers to.

 

17:31.250 --> 17:36.021

I think that different companies have different approaches, and

 

17:36.021 --> 17:39.291

it's contentious sometimes. Anthropic has one approach, OpenAI has one

 

17:39.291 --> 17:42.461

approach, Google has one approach. If you talk to all three of them they all

 

17:42.461 --> 17:44.596

think they have the right approach to how to do it.

 

17:44.596 --> 17:48.367

I think that it's one of those areas that is important and needs to be talked

 

17:48.367 --> 17:52.137

about, and maybe it's not being addressed holistically by everybody at the

 

17:52.137 --> 17:56.375

moment but I do think it's an issue that everybody is aware of and

 

17:56.375 --> 17:59.912

I just don't think we have a coherent solution just yet That's not saying we

 

17:59.912 --> 18:03.115

won't. I mean, we eventually figured out how to do rules for driving.

 

18:03.115 --> 18:07.786

We've eventually figured it out how to do a lot of different complex things.

 

18:07.786 --> 18:12.124

We've built laws and jurisprudence around all of this stuff so we

 

18:12.124 --> 18:13.926

will get there but it's going to take some time.

 

18:13.926 --> 18:17.930

It took a long time —  remember when Google came out and we had the

 

18:17.930 --> 18:21.900

keywords and nobody understood what keywords were, we're like what's a keyword?

 

18:21.900 --> 18:24.903

I took us all about 10 years to figure out online advertising.

 

18:24.903 --> 18:27.606

I think that AI will be a similar sort of progression.

 

18:27.606 --> 18:29.174

It's going to take a while.

 

18:29.174 --> 18:32.377

And what's the future looking like to you, Annie, at this point as far as where

 

18:32.377 --> 18:35.948

you'd like to see the industry go and what you're seeing so far, and maybe

 

18:35.948 --> 18:39.518

catalysts that you're looking for?

 

18:39.518 --> 18:42.754

I'm really excited about the future.

 

18:42.754 --> 18:46.758

Mark and I talk about this all the time. When you have smart people working

 

18:46.758 --> 18:49.695

on interesting problems that they're really passionate about really good things

 

18:49.695 --> 18:52.931

happen.

 

18:52.931 --> 18:57.302

It's really about use cases applications and making it

 

18:57.302 --> 19:02.875

really useful for more niche audiences.

 

19:02.875 --> 19:06.044

I think we'll see a lot of progress there.

 

19:06.044 --> 19:09.948

Mark, your thoughts on the future for AI and things that you'd like to see,

 

19:09.948 --> 19:11.216

maybe a direction.

 

19:11.216 --> 19:15.254

I would love to see AI solve my compliance problems for me

 

19:15.254 --> 19:17.856

I'd love to have an AI that can do my taxes.

 

19:17.856 --> 19:20.759

You know there's a lot of advisors nodding, not about you but about their own

 

19:20.759 --> 19:23.629

practice just to make sure that things are monitored correctly.

 

19:23.629 --> 19:24.763

Where are we with that?

 

19:24.763 --> 19:28.433

I don't think we're anywhere yet but these are the types of pain points that AI

 

19:28.433 --> 19:30.636

is perfect for, doing your taxes for you.

 

19:30.636 --> 19:34.740

All  these painful things that you have to do in your life, it's usually

 

19:34.740 --> 19:38.677

grunt work and it's paperwork and it's process driven and it's really hard and

 

19:38.677 --> 19:42.514

it takes up a ton of time. There's so many of those tasks that AI could really

 

19:42.514 --> 19:45.350

solve and that would make all of our lives better so we could go play

 

19:45.350 --> 19:49.321

pickleball or do something else. I don't know, I think that there's a

 

19:49.321 --> 19:51.657

lot of upside to the AI.

 

19:51.657 --> 19:56.028

Really, it's about creating balance in people's practices and peoples' lives.

 

19:56.028 --> 19:58.764

Can you talk, Mark, from a trading standpoint?

 

19:58.764 --> 20:00.966

Not exactly what you're trading, what you're buying and selling, we wouldn't go

 

20:00.966 --> 20:02.668

there but how do you ...

 

20:02.668 --> 20:06.805

with the craziness in the market, the volatility that we see,

 

20:06.805 --> 20:10.676

how do you work with your traders? This is a high octane area of the

 

20:10.676 --> 20:14.279

marketplace. How do you make sure you're getting the best fills, if you will,

 

20:14.279 --> 20:16.148

but also efficiency for your portfolios?

 

20:16.148 --> 20:18.150

That is a question you need to ask my trading desk.

 

20:18.150 --> 20:22.187

They have a myriad of tools that allow

 

20:22.187 --> 20:24.590

them to optimize for all of this stuff.

 

20:24.590 --> 20:29.194

Again, AI is a great application for all things trading

 

20:29.194 --> 20:31.063

and I know there are companies using it.

 

20:31.063 --> 20:34.733

There are companies using quantum for trading.

 

20:34.733 --> 20:39.304

There are many ways to use this technology

 

20:39.304 --> 20:41.840

and I think that we just haven't seen them all yet.

 

20:41.840 --> 20:45.310

It's interesting, when you talk to the big companies they're like, demand is

 

20:45.310 --> 20:48.814

insatiable for AI. Of course, everyone else is like, well, it's a bubble.

 

20:48.814 --> 20:51.917

Then you talk like Microsoft and they're like it's insatiable demand, we can't

 

20:51.917 --> 20:55.754

meet at all. I think because everyone is experimenting with all these different

 

20:55.754 --> 20:59.992

applications and they are having success but they're not necessarily

 

20:59.992 --> 21:03.795

telling anyone. They'll go to Annie and they'll say, hey, I got this use case

 

21:03.795 --> 21:06.531

and I got 300 million in revenue and you've never heard of me before.

 

21:06.531 --> 21:09.067

Annie's like, what?

 

21:09.067 --> 21:13.338

I think there are a lot of those companies and a lot those applications

 

21:13.338 --> 21:17.743

that we will see over the next three years evolve

 

21:17.743 --> 21:21.713

and then we will all look back and go, oh yeah, yeah, it was used for

 

21:21.713 --> 21:24.082

all these things and we didn't know.

 

21:24.082 --> 21:27.052

Annie, volume of information that comes to you.

 

21:27.052 --> 21:31.089

I know that AI helps but companies that are private must realize Fidelity

 

21:31.089 --> 21:35.060

is additive to their business, how do you make

 

21:35.060 --> 21:38.797

that efficient? We talked earlier about weeding out the companies who are less

 

21:38.797 --> 21:42.834

desirable but when all this information's coming to you there must be a line of

 

21:42.834 --> 21:45.971

questions, you probably can't tell us everything but there must be an efficient

 

21:45.971 --> 21:47.773

way that you assess these companies.

 

21:47.773 --> 21:50.075

Can you talk to us a bit about that?

 

21:50.075 --> 21:54.546

In terms of big picture, one, it's like what's

 

21:54.546 --> 21:58.817

the customer pain point that you're solving.

 

21:58.817 --> 22:02.721

A real example is ChatGPT, 800 million users, clearly, they're solving a

 

22:02.721 --> 22:05.023

problem for someone.

 

22:05.023 --> 22:09.194

I think the second part is just around the team.

 

22:09.194 --> 22:12.898

Are they executing, do they have some differentiated insight?

 

22:12.898 --> 22:15.400

I know we've talked about Anthropic a little bit.

 

22:15.400 --> 22:19.504

Early on they realized how important alignment and safety is to their

 

22:19.504 --> 22:23.742

enterprise customers and so they invested very heavily in those efforts.

 

22:23.742 --> 22:27.913

If you're going to have AI help you with decision making for HR or legal

 

22:27.913 --> 22:31.883

you want to make sure that there's guardrails that are

 

22:31.883 --> 22:33.919

built in place.

 

22:33.919 --> 22:40.592

I think the third one is just around

 

22:40.592 --> 22:43.428

do they have some type of differentiated insight?

 

22:43.428 --> 22:47.699

What is your right to win in this very, very competitive space?

 

22:47.699 --> 22:50.702

Those are some of the things that I think about as we meet with these really

 

22:50.702 --> 22:52.804

exciting companies.

 

22:52.804 --> 22:54.473

Excellent. Let's talk about those data centres that I was talking about

 

22:54.473 --> 22:58.143

earlier. I've seen they're a million to two million square feet.

 

22:58.143 --> 23:00.345

They're in backyards of homes.

 

23:00.345 --> 23:03.248

They're probably causing brownouts on electrical grids.

 

23:03.248 --> 23:07.219

This is a huge power demand, or is it something that's

 

23:07.219 --> 23:10.055

being met okay? What are your thoughts on that, Mark, as far as power

 

23:10.055 --> 23:12.891

consumption and criticism about that?

 

23:12.891 --> 23:15.160

I have a long answer for this.

 

23:15.160 --> 23:18.964

I'll try and shorten it. I think in the near term it is an issue.

 

23:18.964 --> 23:23.201

There is a power crunch. Power is an engineering problem that is

 

23:23.201 --> 23:27.339

solvable. There are a myriad of private companies currently working

 

23:27.339 --> 23:29.708

on lower power options.

 

23:29.708 --> 23:33.678

If you think about Google TPU versus Nvidia GPU, the TPU is

 

23:33.678 --> 23:35.614

much less power hungry.

 

23:35.614 --> 23:39.317

Power is a variable that every engineer right now is trying to solve.

 

23:39.317 --> 23:41.953

That's the biggest cost for every single data centre.

 

23:41.953 --> 23:46.024

I think that what folks should think about is 5 to

 

23:46.024 --> 23:48.560

10 years from now they will have engineered better power.

 

23:48.560 --> 23:52.731

The GPUs will be more efficient on a per watt basis.

 

23:52.731 --> 23:55.300

That's a silver lining from all of this, really.

 

23:55.300 --> 23:57.736

100% it's the biggest cost.

 

23:57.736 --> 24:01.840

It's like airlines trying to figure out how to get the fuel load

 

24:01.840 --> 24:03.675

down. The same with AI.

 

24:03.675 --> 24:07.345

For me, I don't think power is a long term structural problem.

 

24:07.345 --> 24:11.316

I think it is a short term bottleneck that's going to be around for two years

 

24:11.316 --> 24:15.120

or so and they're going to engineer solutions to get around this power

 

24:15.120 --> 24:20.292

bottleneck with better chips, better design, better everything.

 

24:20.292 --> 24:22.694

Yes, there's a lot of data centres and they have some issues.

 

24:22.694 --> 24:26.731

I don't know that we're going to need millions of power plants

 

24:26.731 --> 24:29.100

to feed these data centres. I think they're just going to get more power

 

24:29.100 --> 24:31.336

efficient, but we'll see. It depends, right?

 

24:31.336 --> 24:36.208

If the applications for AI turn out to be incredibly numerous

 

24:36.208 --> 24:39.044

maybe we do need more data centres. This is the debate that's currently going

 

24:39.044 --> 24:42.881

on but I don't think power is the problem.

 

24:42.881 --> 24:47.152

Some who are old enough like me who remember the buildup in the late '90s,

 

24:47.152 --> 24:48.487

remember fibre optic cables--

 

24:48.487 --> 24:49.221

I remember.

 

24:49.221 --> 24:52.424

--telecommunications. It was all about the number of terabits and whatever the

 

24:52.424 --> 24:54.159

other jargon was that they would carry.

 

24:54.159 --> 24:57.796

Then the determination was made we don't need that much capacity.

 

24:57.796 --> 25:01.333

That, obviously, was part of the reason for the demise of the market for that

 

25:01.333 --> 25:05.437

period. These data centres, there'd be some who would think these

 

25:05.437 --> 25:07.239

are too big, there's too many of them.

 

25:07.239 --> 25:12.577

Annie,

do you think that that's a case from a capacity standpoint or are they being utilized quite well?

 

25:12.577 --> 25:16.581

Well, every company that we've talked to for the last two years has been

 

25:16.581 --> 25:19.584

telling us we need more compute, we need more compute, we need more compute.

 

25:19.584 --> 25:22.354

This is across the board. I don't think we've met a single company that hasn't

 

25:22.354 --> 25:24.723

said that.

 

25:24.723 --> 25:27.893

Those are the data points that I have for today.

 

25:27.893 --> 25:32.197

Quantum computing, a question's come in, how does that integrate with AI?

 

25:32.197 --> 25:36.101

That's a good question. I have no idea. I don't think that they are related.

 

25:36.101 --> 25:39.004

I think that's a complementary technology that people are getting excited

 

25:39.004 --> 25:42.941

about. Just to go back to your previous question a little bit,

 

25:42.941 --> 25:47.012

I think AI is one part

 

25:47.012 --> 25:50.649

of the story for data centres but the other part of the story, and Jensen at

 

25:50.649 --> 25:54.719

Nvidia will tell you this, the laws of physics have made the CPU

 

25:54.719 --> 25:58.790

irrelevant. We've hit the max, we can't get any smaller.

 

25:58.790 --> 26:03.161

In order to have more compute for even just the basics of what we do today

 

26:03.161 --> 26:07.299

we need to move to these GPUs and this parallel processing and

 

26:07.299 --> 26:09.267

all these new things.

 

26:09.267 --> 26:13.238

The data centre requirement is not just AI, it's just

 

26:13.238 --> 26:17.208

general compute has to increase for all the things we

 

26:17.208 --> 26:20.045

do already. You've got a couple of things going on.

 

26:20.045 --> 26:24.583

You have AI as an accelerator of demand but you also have the CPU

 

26:24.583 --> 26:28.687

sort of dying out as a workhorse for overall data

 

26:28.687 --> 26:30.889

centre stuff.

 

26:30.889 --> 26:33.525

You've got more than one thing going on and I think that's why we're probably

 

26:33.525 --> 26:37.195

going to see data centre buildouts at a pretty large scale for quite a long

 

26:37.195 --> 26:38.263

time.

 

26:38.263 --> 26:41.466

Hello, investors. We'll be back to the show in just a moment.

 

26:41.466 --> 26:45.036

I wanted to share that here at Fidelity, we value your opinion.

 

26:45.036 --> 26:47.339

Please take a few minutes to help us shape the future of Fidelity Connects

 

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26:57.482 --> 27:01.086

And don't forget to listen to Fidelity Connects, the Upside, and French

 

27:01.086 --> 27:05.123

DialoguesFidelity podcasts available on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever

 

27:05.123 --> 27:09.327

else you get your podcasts. Now back to today's show.

 

27:09.327 --> 27:13.565

You've both made it very clear that AI is here to stay and it's got a

 

27:13.565 --> 27:17.569

huge future, lots to learn, lots of ebbs and flows all over the place.

 

27:17.569 --> 27:21.640

Mark, top three things that you would say are on your radar right now from

 

27:21.640 --> 27:23.074

an AI standpoint.

 

27:23.074 --> 27:25.377

I'm always looking for applications, and so is Annie.

 

27:25.377 --> 27:27.679

We're always trying to figure out who's the next application.

 

27:27.679 --> 27:31.616

I think that the magic moment for me this year was when we saw Claude for code

 

27:31.616 --> 27:35.654

really accelerate and the engineers embrace it and use it, and the tokens

 

27:35.654 --> 27:37.455

account just went crazy.

 

27:37.455 --> 27:40.558

We are actively looking for the next big applications.

 

27:40.558 --> 27:44.496

We may not find it, we keep looking, but

 

27:44.496 --> 27:48.233

it could be that it's just a whole bunch of little applications, it could be, I

 

27:48.233 --> 27:52.470

don't know. That is what I spend most of my day thinking about, who's

 

27:52.470 --> 27:56.975

using AI, how are they using it, who wins and who loses from that,

 

27:56.975 --> 28:00.945

and then trying to build a portfolio such that I can take advantage of

 

28:00.945 --> 28:02.847

that. Very hard to do.

 

28:02.847 --> 28:06.951

We don't have that much visibility but if we don't any visibility good luck

 

28:06.951 --> 28:10.555

to anyone else. We're in the heart of it all and we're seeing all of the

 

28:10.555 --> 28:12.424

companies doing it.

 

28:12.424 --> 28:13.825

That's what we're spending our time on.

 

28:13.825 --> 28:16.995

Annie, what would you add to that list of key things that are on your radar as

 

28:16.995 --> 28:18.596

far as AI?

 

28:18.596 --> 28:22.534

I think it's use cases and also just smart people continuing to be excited

 

28:22.534 --> 28:24.869

and building in the space.

 

28:24.869 --> 28:28.239

We talk to engineers, founders, so many different people.

 

28:28.239 --> 28:32.510

They can see things in advance of what I can see

 

28:32.510 --> 28:36.381

in terms of the roadmap. There's just so much excitement.

 

28:36.381 --> 28:38.316

I'm excited about the year ahead.

 

28:38.316 --> 28:42.353

What's exciting too is how you source information and by seeing that

 

28:42.353 --> 28:47.192

piece of paper on a lamppost, or what have you, in 2022, you're

 

28:47.192 --> 28:50.729

still looking at the nooks and crannies, aren't you, for what other aspects are

 

28:50.729 --> 28:54.666

complementary or new and interesting things to talk about

 

28:54.666 --> 28:58.703

through social media, through something as simple as posting on

 

28:58.703 --> 29:01.306

a billboard or what have you.

 

29:01.306 --> 29:05.310

I was listening to a podcast yesterday. It's a next gen AI company

 

29:05.310 --> 29:09.447

and they want to reach a younger audience so they actually

 

29:09.447 --> 29:11.850

post a lot of stuff through TikTok.

 

29:11.850 --> 29:14.119

I have friends sending me stuff on Twitter all the time.

 

29:14.119 --> 29:18.123

We have other investors that are making introductions

 

29:18.123 --> 29:20.058

through the company that Mark was talking about.

 

29:20.058 --> 29:22.861

He had actually texted his son this morning asking have you heard of this

 

29:22.861 --> 29:26.798

coding review company, the Series A company that had

 

29:26.798 --> 29:30.535

been referred to us by one of their customers and investors.

 

29:30.535 --> 29:34.539

We've been really lucky, one of the best parts of working

 

29:34.539 --> 29:38.877

at Fidelity is you get to talk to almost anyone.

 

29:38.877 --> 29:40.612

We're really lucky to have good access.

 

29:40.612 --> 29:42.380

Can I give you a fun story?

 

29:42.380 --> 29:43.648

I love fun stories.

 

29:43.648 --> 29:48.052

I was watching the Seattle Mariners game at my local bar,

 

29:48.052 --> 29:49.387

Harry's.

 

29:49.387 --> 29:50.388

Of course it's named Harry's.

 

29:50.388 --> 29:54.292

It's called Harry's Bar. I was sitting there with my wife watching the Jays

 

29:54.292 --> 29:58.429

play the Mariners. At the table next to me was a robotics company

 

29:58.429 --> 30:02.667

from Chicago talking to a VC who was wearing his Seattle Mariners hat.

 

30:02.667 --> 30:04.936

They were doing the meeting while the game was on.

 

30:04.936 --> 30:07.071

My wife was like this and she nudged me, she's like, hey, Mark, robotics,

 

30:07.071 --> 30:12.143

they're talking robotics.

 

30:12.143 --> 30:16.548

About the sixth inning, we weren't ahead yet, I

 

30:16.548 --> 30:19.517

said, you guys in robotics?

 

30:19.517 --> 30:23.454

I work at Fidelity, private, so we talked for 20 minutes about their little

 

30:23.454 --> 30:25.924

robotics company in Chicago.

 

30:25.924 --> 30:29.027

That's the kind of thing that happens in the Bay Area.

 

30:29.027 --> 30:33.164

They flew in just to meet VCs and they're like, this is amazing, we're

 

30:33.164 --> 30:36.534

at the bar and we're talking to Fidelity. I can't remember who the other VC

 

30:36.534 --> 30:39.637

was. That is an example.

 

30:39.637 --> 30:43.441

There's some real logic to that and what it takes me back to is One Up On Wall

 

30:43.441 --> 30:47.412

Street, Peter Lynch talking about just absorbing from

 

30:47.412 --> 30:50.081

what's around you, family members, friends and so on.

 

30:50.081 --> 30:53.952

That was in an analog way, now it's in a digital way or simply at Harry's Bar.

 

30:53.952 --> 30:55.753

Harry's Bar watching the baseball game.

 

30:55.753 --> 30:56.855

It's crazy.

 

30:56.855 --> 30:59.290

Annie, as we wrap are there key thoughts that you want to leave with our

 

30:59.290 --> 31:03.094

audience today on what it is that you're doing as director of private equities

 

31:03.094 --> 31:05.296

but also for the future that you see?

 

31:05.296 --> 31:09.801

Absolutely. I think I have just one of the best jobs at Fidelity.

 

31:09.801 --> 31:12.237

I feel so lucky to be where I am and.

 

31:12.237 --> 31:14.873

There's just so much excitement in this space.

 

31:14.873 --> 31:17.108

We're just talking to the people that are building in the space.

 

31:17.108 --> 31:20.778

I think Mark described it really well, there's the finance folks and then there

 

31:20.778 --> 31:24.816

are the people who are building the space and they're

 

31:24.816 --> 31:28.519

just really passionate about what's ahead so that makes me excited as well.

 

31:28.519 --> 31:31.422

You talk about it with a big smile and that shows that there's a lot of

 

31:31.422 --> 31:33.625

interest and a lot of excitement and a lot of future as well.

 

31:33.625 --> 31:36.194

Mark, some key takeaways for our audience today.

 

31:36.194 --> 31:40.164

I think that AI is here to stay and it's going to revolutionize everything

 

31:40.164 --> 31:44.035

you do. If you're a planner it's going to take away all those terrible, awful

 

31:44.035 --> 31:47.705

compliance and paperwork and email chains that you have.

 

31:47.705 --> 31:49.874

I know I've seen some of them.

 

31:49.874 --> 31:53.845

I think this is going to make your life better. I'm not scared

 

31:53.845 --> 31:56.014

of it, I'm really not.

 

31:56.014 --> 31:59.651

Science fiction makes us scared of AI but I think the use cases are just going

 

31:59.651 --> 32:02.921

to get rid of all the grunt work, just the stuff that we hate to do.

 

32:02.921 --> 32:05.690

I think it's going to happen quickly.

 

32:05.690 --> 32:09.093

What I would say too is, and this is what I tell a lot of the youngsters,

 

32:09.093 --> 32:11.696

embrace it, it's not going away.

 

32:11.696 --> 32:15.900

Figure out how to use it before everyone else does and just

 

32:15.900 --> 32:19.103

love it because it's going to get better and you're going to need to use it to

 

32:19.103 --> 32:20.805

compete so embrace it.

 

32:20.805 --> 32:24.075

That's a great takeaway from both of you. I love the embrace it side of it

 

32:24.075 --> 32:28.112

because if it's not going away figure out for me, for you, for you it's

 

32:28.112 --> 32:30.581

going to be used differently but it's going to be additive and it's going to

 

32:30.581 --> 32:33.985

allow us to play pickleball or whatever else you want to do.

 

32:33.985 --> 32:37.422

Excellent. Annie and Mark, thank you so much for joining us today.

 

32:37.422 --> 32:39.724

It was very interesting and I hope you enjoyed it as well.

 

32:39.724 --> 32:40.358

Thank you so much.

 

32:40.358 --> 32:41.359

Thank you so much.

 

32:41.359 --> 32:45.296

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32:45.296 --> 32:49.434

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33:18.963 --> 33:22.800

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the participants,

 

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and do not necessarily reflect those of Fidelity Investments Canada ULC or

 

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Thanks again. We'll see you next time.