FOCUS 2026: Going global with long/short – Nic Bellemare, Max Adelson
Nic Bellemare and Max Adelson examine opportunities across global markets and show how a long/short approach can help identify investments in a range of market environments.
Transcript
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<b>Subtitles are AI Generated</b>
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<b>Nic and Max, welcome to Nashville, Tennessee.</b>
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<b>It's good to have you both here.</b>
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<b>This is in Davidson County.</b>
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<b>I don't know if that has anything to do with my family but if</b>
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<b>you need anything you just let me know.</b>
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<b>Now, Max, I had the pleasure of speaking with you about</b>
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<b>the fund in May in</b>
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<b>Scottsdale and then, Nic, you and I spoke in Vancouver.</b>
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<b>But what's really great is we've got both of you together</b>
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<b>today.</b>
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<b>I know what you're going to illustrate to the audience is you</b>
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<b>don't work in silos, you actually work collectively.</b>
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<b>I think it'll be really interesting when we have our</b>
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<b>discussion. And also very interesting that we're following</b>
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<b>Dave Way who has a North American focus, you both</b>
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<b>have the world at your disposal and</b>
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<b>both sides of the trade as well with the long/short</b>
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<b>opportunity.</b>
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<b>Why don't we start with you, Nic? Why don't we start with what</b>
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<b>are you trying to achieve for investors?</b>
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<b>What are we trying to achieve?</b>
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<b>Well, Glen, I think one of the biggest challenge for investors</b>
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<b>and allocators has increasingly been to</b>
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<b>achieve good diversification.</b>
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<b>We've been in the last couple of years in a concentrated</b>
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<b>market. You can own five funds and</b>
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<b>have the same bet on the same underlying companies.</b>
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<b>A lot of funds and the indices are very top heavy on</b>
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<b>a lot of US big tech companies.</b>
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<b>When Max and I were thinking of launching something new,</b>
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<b>bringing something new to Canadian investors a few years ago</b>
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<b>we wanted to do something different.</b>
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<b>Our answer was to widen the playing</b>
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<b>field. Max loves to say, and I like that saying, we</b>
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<b>want to spend a lot of time on page 17 of the newspaper.</b>
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<b>we look at the big changes in the world and constantly ask</b>
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<b>what's the better, less obvious way to capitalixe on</b>
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<b>it. We have those debates every day.</b>
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<b>What does it mean if Meta launches</b>
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<b>a personal agent that goes viral?</b>
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<b>What does it mean if drone warfare</b>
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<b>becomes the dominant form of conflict?</b>
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<b>If AI leads to a boom in drug discovery?</b>
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<b>If the rise of populism leads to</b>
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<b>protectionist measures after 30 years of globalization?</b>
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<b>All those big changes.</b>
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<b>We're always asking what value stock is it</b>
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<b>turning into a more exciting growth story, or</b>
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<b>what market darling, on the flip side, is going</b>
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<b>to be more vulnerable and that could be a good short</b>
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<b>candidate. We really have that flexibility with</b>
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<b>this mandate to go across borders, across</b>
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<b>the range of market caps as well, and especially on</b>
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<b>both the long and short side to uncover</b>
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<b>those stories. When we put a portfolio of those together what</b>
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<b>we get is a strategy that has the flexibility to</b>
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<b>move with the market leadership but that also</b>
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<b>looks and feels very different and brings a</b>
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<b>real element of diversification to an investor's</b>
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<b>stock or equity portfolio.</b>
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<b>Nic and I have been investing together for 15 years</b>
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<b>now. I was reflecting on that the other day.</b>
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<b>Over 15 years I've gotten the chance to know Nic's investment</b>
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<b>style very deeply, he's gotten the chance to know mine,</b>
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<b>which means when we came together in 2023 to</b>
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<b>form this mandate we had a lot of information, we had</b>
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<b>lot of experience together in deciding on</b>
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<b>how we wanted to populate</b>
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<b>a portfolio. Like Nic said we wanted to have a</b>
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<b>very wide mandate.</b>
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<b>At Fidelity we have the resources with over 100 analysts</b>
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<b>covering stocks around the world.</b>
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<b>We have a database of over 2,000 companies.</b>
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<b>We want to cast that net really wide, really</b>
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<b>wide. The other thing that we decided on</b>
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<b>that we saw from our experience, we said</b>
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<b>being a Fidelity analyst, which we were for 10 years,</b>
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<b>forces the discipline of rating stocks,</b>
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<b>not just buy but also sell.</b>
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<b>Isolate the underperformers.</b>
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<b>Fortunately, for a short selling mandate most of</b>
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<b>the stocks in the stock market will over time underperform,</b>
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<b>which makes shorting very simple.</b>
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<b>Doesn't make it easy.</b>
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<b>We'll talk more about that during the session.</b>
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<b>Nic and I decided we needed to have this capability</b>
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<b>to leverage off all the resources we have to</b>
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<b>produce a better risk-adjusted outcome for</b>
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<b>investors.</b>
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<b>So as analysts your buy recommendations did very</b>
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<b>well and your sell recommendations did horribly, which is</b>
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<b>a good thing. That allowed you to be given</b>
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<b>the opportunity to run the long/short portfolio.</b>
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<b>Max, as you talked about, you both have worked together for a</b>
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<b>long time, 2012 starting at Fidelity, but school was</b>
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<b>where you met and decided, you know what, we're on the same</b>
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<b>page. Could you expand on that?</b>
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<b>Prior to our experience at Fidelity Nic and I</b>
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<b>co-ran the Desautel Capital Management student-run investment</b>
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<b>fund at McGill University.</b>
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<b>Nic was the equity strategist, I was the fixed income</b>
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<b>strategist. Naturally, Nic was a little more focused on</b>
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<b>the upside. What could go right he's asking, where are the big</b>
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<b>winners? Being a fixed income strategies at the time I</b>
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<b>was thinking of downside, how much can we lose?</b>
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<b>Some things never change.</b>
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<b>That's really what informed how we come together on</b>
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<b>this mandate. What we bring is a diversity of</b>
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<b>opinion and try to select the best idea that</b>
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<b>comes from that. Nic alluded to this a little bit.</b>
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<b>When we can find a value situation that could</b>
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<b>become a growth one, something page 17 going</b>
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<b>to page one, that's where we really want to strike.</b>
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<b>We do the same thing on the short side going the</b>
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<b>other direction. It's about that symbiosis of how</b>
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<b>an idea can resonate between the two of us.</b>
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<b>Do you miss fixed income?</b>
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<b>Well, no, Max was the fixed income so I stuck</b>
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<b>with equities all along.</b>
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<b>I think some of those things will always help you.</b>
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<b>They'll always help you as an equity analyst.</b>
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<b>It's almost like thinking about it from a different</b>
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<b>perspective. Every vantage point that you can get on something</b>
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<b>will give you a little bit more perspective on how to think</b>
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<b>about it.</b>
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<b>Nic, tell us about the day-to-day. How have you really gelled</b>
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<b>and how do you make decisions?</b>
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<b>Yeah, I'd say we divide the work but not the</b>
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<b>portfolio. Really, we don't sort</b>
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<b>of divide, you know, Max is going to look at this sector, I'll</b>
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<b>look at the sector, we're going to go our own separate sleeve</b>
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<b>and put it together. We really together own every</b>
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<b>decision in the portfolio. Frankly, the portfolio doesn't</b>
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<b>care who comes up with the idea, it really cares that</b>
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<b>the right amount of capital is put behind the right ideas.</b>
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<b>On a day-to-day basis</b>
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<b>how it works is we're both searching the world for those those</b>
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<b>fat pitches, those great ideas. It usually starts with</b>
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<b>the big research pack that max alluded to, all this</b>
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<b>research produced by our analysts day in, day</b>
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<b>out. We try to find the special gems out of it.</b>
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<b>When we find something that we think is compelling</b>
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<b>we sort of make the case to the other one.</b>
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<b>I think we've evolved in one of the world's</b>
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<b>most efficient Investment committee in that we're very</b>
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<b>efficient at debating the idea and getting to the bottom</b>
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<b>of it, bringing our two perspectives to it and deciding</b>
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<b>maybe it wasn't as good as I initially thought, maybe it's</b>
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<b>something we got to put back on the shelf and revisit later,</b>
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<b>or maybe it's something we need to action in the short term.</b>
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<b>Usually, what comes out of this discussion</b>
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<b>and debate is even greater conviction.</b>
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<b>If I find an idea Max will usually bring</b>
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<b>that other filter, find some blind spots</b>
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<b>and I get greater conviction on the other side.</b>
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<b>That's where we'll action the idea.</b>
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<b>The same goes for what's already in the portfolio which is</b>
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<b>just as important.</b>
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<b>We're both always free to challenge if</b>
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<b>a position in the book should be ...</b>
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<b>maybe it should grow, or maybe the thesis for which we bought</b>
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<b>it initially has played out, it's time to</b>
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<b>cash out, or this</b>
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<b>is where the teamwork is even more important, the thesis</b>
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<b>has drifted away, right, so the thesis is broken, what we</b>
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<b>envision initially is not panning out.</b>
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<b>To just have someone you trust be able to say I think</b>
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<b>the facts have changed is hugely valuable.</b>
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<b>The mind is very good at creating new reasons</b>
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<b>to own a stock, to not basically</b>
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<b>expose you as being wrong, but to</b>
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<b>have another perspective on the idea</b>
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<b>can help us be better sellers which is just as</b>
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<b>important but often harder than being a good buyer of stocks.</b>
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<b>Being a good seller is a really key skill</b>
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<b>and it helps to be looking at things both directions.</b>
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<b>We've got so many examples where we've gone through the</b>
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<b>process and said, as you mentioned, this is</b>
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<b>something that we want to maybe short sell or it's time</b>
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<b>to exit. It's a question of when do we want take that book</b>
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<b>off the shelf, when is a good time?</b>
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<b>We're probably going to get into some of those</b>
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<b>Why don't we get into the long side of the book right now.</b>
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<b>We'll talk about opportunities. A lot's been changing in the</b>
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<b>market consistently. When you think about the biggest</b>
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<b>opportunities in the last 6 to 12 months what's been changing?</b>
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<b>Nic, I'll start with you.</b>
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<b>Well, Glen, I think the big thematics, the big tectonic</b>
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<b>plates of the market, which you'll probably hear a lot about</b>
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<b>today, have not changed tremendously.</b>
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<b>You still have AI and the tremendous</b>
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<b>amount of change on the technology front and technology</b>
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<b>becoming this very capital-intensive industry.</b>
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<b>Then you have the rewriting of</b>
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<b>how the geopolitics at a fast pace after maybe 30</b>
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<b>years of relative moderation and</b>
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<b>this globalization movement that's suddenly reversing,</b>
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<b>those two tectonic plates</b>
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<b>are crashing into each other into the rate story which</b>
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<b>is the most important macro story right now and this</b>
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<b>increase in interest rate, sovereign rates across</b>
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<b>developed markets.</b>
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<b>Those have been the environment in</b>
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<b>which we've been managing the strategy for a number of</b>
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<b>years now, including the pilot phase.</b>
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<b>The opportunity set underneath is constantly evolving</b>
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<b>and changing and we're moving the portfolio with it.</b>
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<b>If I double click on AI, for example,</b>
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<b>one thing Max and I have been talking a lot about is the</b>
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<b>lessons we can draw from having covered the energy</b>
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<b>industry in the 2010s where there was a</b>
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<b>similar dynamic.</b>
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<b>We had a new technology in the</b>
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<b>shale oil and gas in a big capital cycle boom</b>
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<b>driven by the drillers that ultimately</b>
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<b>ended up in a glut of the commodity of</b>
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<b>oil and gas. We've learned the playbook, how to make</b>
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<b>money across the different phases of that.</b>
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<b>In the initial phase, the first few years, it's a lot about</b>
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<b>finding the bottlenecks of the buildout.</b>
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<b>In the past few years every year we found an entirely new</b>
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<b>vintage of companies that are often</b>
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<b>value stocks, low growth stocks, selling into end</b>
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<b>markets that are</b>
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<b>usually very slow, like autos, for example.</b>
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<b>Suddenly, they find a way to sell into data centres.</b>
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<b>They have a client that wants a lot of what they make</b>
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<b>at pretty much any price.</b>
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<b>Those are very powerful transformations</b>
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<b>and those can be really big stocks.</b>
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<b>We've found a lot, we continue to find some.</b>
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<b>would say where it's evolving is the other lesson we've been</b>
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<b>drawing from this period of covering the energy</b>
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<b>industry is that the long term winners were neither</b>
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<b>the company spending all the money, back then was the</b>
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<b>drillers, today you can say it's the hyperscalers and the</b>
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<b>model companies. Those were not the long term winners,</b>
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<b>nor was it those bottlenecks that ultimately got solved.</b>
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<b>It was a lot of the users of the new abundant commodity.</b>
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<b>Back then you had a lot cheap gas in</b>
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<b>North America the big winner was the</b>
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<b>petrochemical complex that suddenly became much more</b>
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<b>competitive with Asia and Europe.</b>
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<b>We're looking outside of technology and the buildout</b>
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<b>bottlenecks for winners as we deploy</b>
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<b>this technology. It's brought us to different corners of the</b>
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<b>market. It's brought us in a lot of areas, especially</b>
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<b>in healthcare.</b>
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<b>I alluded to what does a drug discovery</b>
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<b>boom mean?</b>
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<b>I think this is where it's going.</b>
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<b>They want to apply a lot these models to finding new molecule.</b>
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<b>I don't know for you Glen, I don't want a new</b>
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<b>drug to come directly from a model to be injected in</b>
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<b>my body without some testing first.</b>
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<b>Here's a new bottleneck that's emerging, testing all these new</b>
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<b>compounds. Where are these new opportunities that are</b>
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<b>emerging? It's even bringing us back to former</b>
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<b>companies that were perceived as losers in software, for</b>
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<b>example. Now we have all our personal agent</b>
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<b>that's going to call all our</b>
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<b>phone providers and so on to negotiate our bill.</b>
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<b>There's a massive modernization happening in the contact</b>
13:10.022 --> 13:13.859
<b>centre. This is driving utilization up</b>
13:13.859 --> 13:16.929
<b>of softwares that were left for dead or very, very cheap.</b>
13:16.929 --> 13:19.031
<b>I would say, back</b>
13:20.533 --> 13:23.302
<b>to your question, the environment, the tectonic plates are the</b>
13:23.302 --> 13:26.572
<b>same but the opportunity set is evolving underneath and</b>
13:26.572 --> 13:28.140
<b>we're moving with it.</b>
13:28.140 --> 13:30.242
<b>I'm glad you brought up some of those points because we always</b>
13:30.242 --> 13:33.345
<b>have to revisit many of those assumptions,</b>
13:33.345 --> 13:36.782
<b>including the energy experience. I think back to that period</b>
13:36.782 --> 13:40.152
<b>and what we saw over and over again was high degree of</b>
13:40.152 --> 13:42.721
<b>confidence. We would sit with management teams of energy</b>
13:42.721 --> 13:45.991
<b>companies building out big projects, they would look</b>
13:45.991 --> 13:49.261
<b>at us and tell us oil is going to be $100 a</b>
13:49.261 --> 13:53.065
<b>barrel. And it wasn't, it went to 50, went</b>
13:53.065 --> 13:54.066
<b>even lower.</b>
13:54.733 --> 13:57.837
<b>That's what we try to isolate for, where might</b>
13:57.837 --> 14:00.673
<b>there be a little bit of excess confidence?</b>
14:00.673 --> 14:03.843
<b>Sometimes we have the opportunity to take the other side.</b>
14:03.843 --> 14:07.046
<b>We call it buying humiliation and selling</b>
14:07.046 --> 14:08.447
<b>hubris.</b>
14:08.447 --> 14:10.349
<b>It comes up from time to time.</b>
14:10.349 --> 14:13.485
<b>Here's a great example of it. In AI right now it's not just</b>
14:13.485 --> 14:16.622
<b>who's going to build it but who can figure out how to</b>
14:16.622 --> 14:19.792
<b>use it. There's a huge gap today between how</b>
14:19.792 --> 14:22.928
<b>it's being used, what it's capable of, and what people think</b>
14:22.928 --> 14:25.431
<b>it may be capable of someday.</b>
14:25.431 --> 14:28.667
<b>Things like robotics, things like lots</b>
14:28.667 --> 14:30.169
<b>of stuff going on in space.</b>
14:31.437 --> 14:34.373
<b>Nic and I are always trying to find that intersection of what</b>
14:34.373 --> 14:36.141
<b>could be and what is.</b>
14:36.141 --> 14:39.011
<b>That's where we tend to find really interesting ideas.</b>
14:39.011 --> 14:41.714
<b>That's what you debate is what could be and what is.</b>
14:41.714 --> 14:43.482
<b>That's very interesting.</b>
14:43.482 --> 14:45.551
<b>Nic, I'm glad you mentioned about what both of you learned</b>
14:45.551 --> 14:48.153
<b>from when you were covering energy as well because it brings</b>
14:48.153 --> 14:51.724
<b>up the fact that as analysts you cover every sector through</b>
14:51.724 --> 14:54.360
<b>a number of years before becoming a diversified portfolio</b>
14:54.360 --> 14:57.997
<b>manager. So you can call back to those days of experience</b>
14:57.997 --> 15:01.166
<b>and the contacts that you have as well to make the thesis that</b>
15:01.166 --> 15:02.501
<b>you you have today.</b>
15:02.501 --> 15:05.671
<b>Max, why don't we touch on the real disconnect between</b>
15:05.671 --> 15:07.473
<b>earnings and fundamentals today?</b>
15:10.743 --> 15:13.946
<b>There are many ways to look at ratios, look</b>
15:13.946 --> 15:16.348
<b>at valuations look at prices.</b>
15:16.348 --> 15:19.752
<b>We tend to think that stocks both follow</b>
15:19.752 --> 15:22.888
<b>earnings but they also anticipate earnings over time.</b>
15:22.888 --> 15:26.191
<b>Sometimes you can see prices move</b>
15:26.191 --> 15:29.228
<b>and the fundamentals are what will follow.</b>
15:29.228 --> 15:32.331
<b>Nic and I try to isolate for what</b>
15:32.331 --> 15:35.434
<b>is the developing story that might be behind that,</b>
15:35.434 --> 15:38.470
<b>what's on page 1 going to the cover.</b>
15:38.504 --> 15:41.774
<b>Once it's in the cover, once we can give you a very clean</b>
15:41.774 --> 15:44.376
<b>story of why something's happened, chances are it's not</b>
15:44.376 --> 15:45.377
<b>investable anymore.</b>
15:47.413 --> 15:50.816
<b>What that means today is we see sectors or we see</b>
15:50.816 --> 15:54.453
<b>geographies starting to show really interesting performance</b>
15:54.453 --> 15:56.388
<b>and we go discover why.</b>
15:56.388 --> 15:59.959
<b>Is it something where prices are not reflecting fundamentals</b>
15:59.959 --> 16:03.095
<b>and we have to respect the fundamental trends, or is it</b>
16:03.095 --> 16:06.198
<b>something where prices are starting to anticipate</b>
16:06.198 --> 16:07.900
<b>something fundamental changing?</b>
16:07.900 --> 16:11.503
<b>Nic talked about the two tectonic plates being changing</b>
16:11.503 --> 16:14.907
<b>geopolitics and changing technology.</b>
16:16.008 --> 16:18.911
<b>One of the adages in investing historically for many has been</b>
16:18.911 --> 16:22.348
<b>to avoid talking too much about politics.</b>
16:22.348 --> 16:25.718
<b>We are not politicians but we follow policy</b>
16:25.718 --> 16:26.719
<b>very closely.</b>
16:27.720 --> 16:30.923
<b>That's where we found some very interesting investment ideas.</b>
16:30.923 --> 16:33.625
<b>We think about what happened during tariffs.</b>
16:33.625 --> 16:36.762
<b>It was easy to run the analysis of who would get hurt by</b>
16:36.762 --> 16:40.065
<b>tariffs. It was a little bit trickier to think second level</b>
16:40.065 --> 16:42.167
<b>of what is the response?</b>
16:42.167 --> 16:45.604
<b>The response was embargo of rare earth materials.</b>
16:45.604 --> 16:47.339
<b>We could position ourselves there.</b>
16:47.339 --> 16:50.542
<b>That was moving well before the fundamentals.</b>
16:50.542 --> 16:54.446
<b>That was isolating for what was changing in policy right now.</b>
16:54.446 --> 16:55.981
<b>We've done that in other areas, too.</b>
16:55.981 --> 16:58.117
<b>Maybe, Nic, you could tell us about health care, how we've</b>
16:58.117 --> 17:01.353
<b>thought about changing policy and where we've allocated.</b>
17:02.755 --> 17:05.858
<b>That ties to another of our playbook that we like, finding</b>
17:05.858 --> 17:08.961
<b>industries where even when you can find the very best player</b>
17:08.961 --> 17:12.064
<b>in an industry that's struggling that's usually a</b>
17:12.064 --> 17:14.600
<b>time where you want to pay a lot of attention to that</b>
17:14.600 --> 17:17.803
<b>industry, unless it's obviously something that's going</b>
17:17.803 --> 17:19.505
<b>to be completely disrupted by technology.</b>
17:19.505 --> 17:23.208
<b>If you find the best VHS manufacturer</b>
17:23.208 --> 17:26.078
<b>a number of years ago it still probably don't do well because</b>
17:26.078 --> 17:29.114
<b>we don't use that technology anymore.</b>
17:29.114 --> 17:32.251
<b>I can't use it in the office because the analysts</b>
17:32.251 --> 17:33.252
<b>are younger and younger.</b>
17:34.987 --> 17:37.256
<b>Usually if it's an industry that will stay forever, like</b>
17:37.256 --> 17:39.324
<b>healthcare, we'll always need some form of health care and you</b>
17:39.324 --> 17:42.428
<b>can find, okay, the best operator is barely getting</b>
17:42.428 --> 17:45.964
<b>by, the other weaker competitors are</b>
17:45.964 --> 17:48.200
<b>really struggling, maybe they have too much debt.</b>
17:48.200 --> 17:50.769
<b>That usually is a point where you're close to the bottom.</b>
17:51.804 --> 17:54.907
<b>when you can find that start of a little shift</b>
17:54.907 --> 17:57.142
<b>in the policy that's getting better is usually a very</b>
17:57.142 --> 17:59.244
<b>interesting time to get involved.</b>
17:59.244 --> 18:02.481
<b>One example is in Australian healthcare, we actually</b>
18:02.481 --> 18:04.316
<b>got involved there.</b>
18:04.316 --> 18:07.586
<b>Again, you may wonder, how do we know what's happening</b>
18:07.586 --> 18:09.321
<b>in Australia, Australian healthcare?</b>
18:09.321 --> 18:12.224
<b>Well, we have a team of analysts in Australia that are</b>
18:12.224 --> 18:14.526
<b>following that industry very closely.</b>
18:14.526 --> 18:17.963
<b>Over there the balance was the hospital</b>
18:17.963 --> 18:21.233
<b>system, the private hospital is</b>
18:21.233 --> 18:24.103
<b>severely underpaid by the private insurers.</b>
18:24.103 --> 18:26.505
<b>The insurers were making a lot of money.</b>
18:26.505 --> 18:29.608
<b>We're kind of waiting for that policy to start shifting</b>
18:29.608 --> 18:33.212
<b>because at some point the hospitals will need that capital to</b>
18:33.212 --> 18:35.380
<b>modernize and get the equipment and the services they need.</b>
18:35.380 --> 18:37.983
<b>We successfully got involved in</b>
18:39.418 --> 18:42.454
<b>Australian hospitals as it was turning.</b>
18:42.454 --> 18:45.190
<b>The US was almost the opposite situation.</b>
18:45.190 --> 18:48.527
<b>A lot of the managed care companies</b>
18:48.527 --> 18:51.497
<b>have had very rough time in the last two or three years, to</b>
18:52.631 --> 18:55.400
<b>the point where if you look at some of the bigger and best</b>
18:55.400 --> 18:59.037
<b>operators and you make some adjustments to their margin</b>
18:59.037 --> 19:02.708
<b>the industry is pretty much not making money in many critical</b>
19:02.708 --> 19:03.709
<b>business lines.</b>
19:05.777 --> 19:07.946
<b>In the US it was the opposite. We got involved in the</b>
19:07.946 --> 19:10.282
<b>insurers. So always trying to find ...</b>
19:10.282 --> 19:12.551
<b>there's always a bull market.</b>
19:12.551 --> 19:14.586
<b>There's multiple bull markets somewhere in the world.</b>
19:14.586 --> 19:17.656
<b>When you look wide enough there's many bear markets.</b>
19:17.656 --> 19:21.093
<b>So trying to find really what's cheap and getting better and</b>
19:21.093 --> 19:23.462
<b>shorting what's expensive and getting worse.</b>
19:23.462 --> 19:26.665
<b>The key is using all these data points we have for our</b>
19:26.665 --> 19:29.001
<b>analysts to be able to position there early.</b>
19:29.001 --> 19:30.936
<b>Using all the resources around the world.</b>
19:30.936 --> 19:34.540
<b>That's it. And Nic is very helpful for me, in part, by</b>
19:34.540 --> 19:38.110
<b>getting away sometimes from the big picture AI or</b>
19:38.110 --> 19:41.446
<b>geopolitics and then drilling down into a specific situation.</b>
19:41.446 --> 19:43.882
<b>We keep those big picture themes in mind.</b>
19:43.882 --> 19:47.186
<b>In this case we're looking at something where,</b>
19:47.186 --> 19:48.921
<b>actually, the story goes back even further.</b>
19:48.954 --> 19:51.924
<b>Because Nic and I covered a company that made an acquisition</b>
19:51.924 --> 19:55.627
<b>of a second tier player in that market many years ago.</b>
19:55.627 --> 19:58.397
<b>They gave us the presentation of why it was going to be so</b>
19:58.397 --> 20:01.300
<b>amazing. There was going to be growth forever in that space.</b>
20:01.300 --> 20:04.803
<b>People getting older, needing more care, privatisation</b>
20:04.803 --> 20:06.905
<b>from the sovereign in Australia.</b>
20:08.073 --> 20:10.542
<b>And turns out things went in a different direction.</b>
20:10.542 --> 20:13.745
<b>That second tier player went bankrupt and that</b>
20:13.745 --> 20:16.682
<b>helped us and inform us even more in addition to having the</b>
20:16.682 --> 20:19.851
<b>team on the ground. It just made the investment a lot</b>
20:19.851 --> 20:23.589
<b>easier and we saw things come around the other direction.</b>
20:23.589 --> 20:26.792
<b>Max, where have investors taken their eye off the</b>
20:26.792 --> 20:28.227
<b>ball? Where are there some opportunities?</b>
20:28.227 --> 20:30.696
<b>I guess the tails right now, where you're seeing some really</b>
20:30.696 --> 20:31.797
<b>interesting market opportunity.</b>
20:33.465 --> 20:35.867
<b>They are always found in many pockets of the world.</b>
20:35.867 --> 20:39.271
<b>One of the things we say is we cannot only</b>
20:39.271 --> 20:40.772
<b>read one sector of research.</b>
20:40.772 --> 20:43.976
<b>We cannot just spend all our time with the technology analyst.</b>
20:43.976 --> 20:46.411
<b>Even though internally at the office, the technology analysts</b>
20:46.411 --> 20:49.748
<b>is the one getting all the love right now, we want</b>
20:49.748 --> 20:52.751
<b>to read everything because we never know exactly where the</b>
20:52.751 --> 20:55.087
<b>next interesting thing may come from.</b>
20:55.087 --> 20:58.657
<b>What we've noticed, one of the big trends, is that for years,</b>
20:58.657 --> 21:01.660
<b>There were many American big tech companies who were growing</b>
21:01.660 --> 21:04.763
<b>and generating lots of free cash flow.</b>
21:04.763 --> 21:08.066
<b>And that trend persisted for year after</b>
21:08.066 --> 21:09.735
<b>year after year after here.</b>
21:09.735 --> 21:12.904
<b>And it was only when the chat GPT moment happened</b>
21:12.904 --> 21:16.041
<b>that we saw that spending just go right</b>
21:16.074 --> 21:17.109
<b>up a ski slope.</b>
21:18.277 --> 21:21.947
<b>And While there have been winners from that in</b>
21:21.947 --> 21:25.484
<b>North America, what we found is all of those vendors</b>
21:25.484 --> 21:29.288
<b>have had a propensity to spend their capital a lot quicker.</b>
21:29.288 --> 21:32.424
<b>And we ask ourselves, hey, where is</b>
21:32.424 --> 21:33.692
<b>that cash flow going?</b>
21:34.693 --> 21:38.063
<b>And having the global mandate that we do allowed us to go to</b>
21:38.063 --> 21:41.800
<b>Asia and find a very different corporate mindset.</b>
21:41.833 --> 21:44.403
<b>We see companies that are coming off years and years and years</b>
21:44.403 --> 21:48.540
<b>of very low returns, trading at discounts to</b>
21:48.540 --> 21:51.443
<b>below book value, which suggests that their investments are</b>
21:51.443 --> 21:53.312
<b>not generating very good returns.</b>
21:53.312 --> 21:55.480
<b>And they're telling us a completely different story.</b>
21:55.480 --> 21:58.650
<b>They're saying, we need to improve our returns before we</b>
21:58.684 --> 22:00.519
<b>start investing in a big way.</b>
22:00.519 --> 22:03.789
<b>And we're starting to see stock buybacks and dividends</b>
22:03.789 --> 22:05.257
<b>from these companies.</b>
22:05.257 --> 22:08.393
<b>So in many cases, sometimes in the very same industry, we have</b>
22:08.393 --> 22:09.828
<b>a geographic disparity.</b>
22:09.828 --> 22:13.565
<b>And we can see better incremental trends</b>
22:13.565 --> 22:16.335
<b>in another jurisdiction. Mm-hmm.</b>
22:16.335 --> 22:18.970
<b>So the fund is called Global Opportunities Long Short.</b>
22:19.004 --> 22:21.239
<b>We've talked about long, we've got to get into the short side</b>
22:21.239 --> 22:24.643
<b>of it. Nic, can you quantify the percentage</b>
22:24.643 --> 22:27.813
<b>of the portfolio that would be short and why you</b>
22:27.813 --> 22:29.881
<b>think it's important for investors?</b>
22:31.350 --> 22:34.453
<b>We have some flexibility in exactly the percentages we</b>
22:34.453 --> 22:37.656
<b>run it at. But I'll tell you, typically, we</b>
22:37.656 --> 22:41.460
<b>run about 130% on the long side,</b>
22:41.460 --> 22:44.663
<b>something like 40% on the short side, which gives you</b>
22:44.663 --> 22:47.099
<b>net exposure around 90%.</b>
22:47.099 --> 22:50.535
<b>And so for a similar rationale that Dave mentioned before</b>
22:50.535 --> 22:53.772
<b>in terms of those are two directionally, we call it</b>
22:53.772 --> 22:56.942
<b>directionally long products, to capture the compounding of the</b>
22:56.942 --> 23:00.112
<b>market over time. But hopefully, using that short</b>
23:00.112 --> 23:03.415
<b>book to... Not only add alpha by finding</b>
23:03.415 --> 23:07.018
<b>those, by shorting those stocks that significantly</b>
23:07.018 --> 23:10.255
<b>under-perform the market, but also by</b>
23:10.255 --> 23:13.558
<b>having a little bit less net exposure and finding shorts that</b>
23:13.558 --> 23:16.661
<b>will particularly under-perform when the market hits a rough</b>
23:16.661 --> 23:20.966
<b>patch, provide a smoother ride for investors.</b>
23:20.966 --> 23:24.002
<b>So our short books are, you know, our defensemen,</b>
23:25.103 --> 23:28.407
<b>they help us in harder times,</b>
23:28.407 --> 23:30.142
<b>But, and as.</b>
23:30.142 --> 23:33.278
<b>They also help our forwards to play with a lot more</b>
23:33.278 --> 23:35.313
<b>conviction because they know they're protected at the back.</b>
23:35.313 --> 23:38.517
<b>So that's what I mean when we own 130%</b>
23:38.517 --> 23:42.053
<b>of our top ideas, or</b>
23:42.053 --> 23:45.490
<b>130% in longs means we can put more capital behind</b>
23:45.524 --> 23:47.993
<b>our long ideas while taking less market risk than a</b>
23:47.993 --> 23:49.895
<b>traditional fund.</b>
23:49.895 --> 23:53.031
<b>So it's a more, it is sort of a</b>
23:53.031 --> 23:56.568
<b>better mousetrap to participate in global equity markets.</b>
23:56.568 --> 23:58.970
<b>Maybe I can ask, just by show of hands in the audience, how</b>
23:58.970 --> 24:01.072
<b>many of you guys, when you think shorting, you think it's</b>
24:01.072 --> 24:02.073
<b>riskier?</b>
24:03.842 --> 24:05.043
<b>A few hands.</b>
24:05.043 --> 24:06.178
<b>There's quite a few.</b>
24:06.178 --> 24:07.179
<b>Quite a few.</b>
24:07.946 --> 24:10.682
<b>So maybe we could talk a little bit about how we think about</b>
24:10.682 --> 24:13.452
<b>risk management within the short book, because Nic mentioned</b>
24:13.452 --> 24:16.855
<b>it is 30% of the total assets, but we also</b>
24:16.855 --> 24:21.092
<b>diversify that short book across many different positions.</b>
24:21.092 --> 24:24.362
<b>And the idea is that the market can remain</b>
24:24.362 --> 24:26.698
<b>irrational longer than one can remain solvent.</b>
24:26.698 --> 24:29.601
<b>A short position can multiply many fold.</b>
24:29.601 --> 24:32.771
<b>And so we have to have a very, very tight risk management</b>
24:32.771 --> 24:36.074
<b>process around. If we are wrong or if things are going</b>
24:36.074 --> 24:38.877
<b>in a different way than we expect, how do we make sure that</b>
24:38.877 --> 24:42.113
<b>those losses are contained while also capturing the benefit</b>
24:42.113 --> 24:44.115
<b>of what shorting can do for us?</b>
24:45.383 --> 24:48.520
<b>So we have tended to have a very, very large book, 60 to</b>
24:48.520 --> 24:51.890
<b>80 individual short positions, which are designed to gradually</b>
24:51.890 --> 24:54.993
<b>underperform our longs and allow us to have more</b>
24:54.993 --> 24:56.962
<b>funding on the long side.</b>
24:56.962 --> 25:00.232
<b>It's been a very helpful part of our overall process to do</b>
25:00.232 --> 25:03.568
<b>exactly that. And not get too consumed with one or two large</b>
25:03.568 --> 25:06.671
<b>positions which may not be performing as one might</b>
25:06.671 --> 25:07.739
<b>expect.</b>
25:07.739 --> 25:11.042
<b>If we can visualise a chart of a successful short</b>
25:11.042 --> 25:14.179
<b>stock for you as a team, it would</b>
25:14.179 --> 25:17.015
<b>go down and to the right, pretty extreme.</b>
25:17.015 --> 25:18.850
<b>Can you give us an example, we just have a few minutes, but</b>
25:18.884 --> 25:22.053
<b>could you give an example of how you both challenge each other</b>
25:22.053 --> 25:24.623
<b>as to where do you close that out?</b>
25:24.623 --> 25:25.624
<b>It could be quite extreme.</b>
25:26.791 --> 25:27.893
<b>Max? Yeah, great point.</b>
25:28.894 --> 25:31.897
<b>So sometimes the shorts come out of sectors that are very</b>
25:31.897 --> 25:34.900
<b>popular. Sometimes they come out sectors that are unpopular</b>
25:34.900 --> 25:36.434
<b>that we think can get worse.</b>
25:36.434 --> 25:39.771
<b>An example would be, it was not long ago that</b>
25:39.771 --> 25:42.807
<b>there was a consensus view that Europe would have to increase</b>
25:42.807 --> 25:46.478
<b>defence spending as a result of</b>
25:46.478 --> 25:50.348
<b>threats, external threats, to Europe's sovereignty.</b>
25:50.348 --> 25:53.752
<b>And we saw this explosion in the values of</b>
25:53.752 --> 25:56.855
<b>companies that did anything related to European defence.</b>
25:56.855 --> 25:59.324
<b>And there were these NATO targets that they would go for 2%,</b>
25:59.324 --> 26:03.328
<b>3%, 4%, 5% of spending on defence,</b>
26:03.328 --> 26:04.829
<b>5% GDP on defence.</b>
26:06.097 --> 26:09.301
<b>And where we became interested on the short side</b>
26:09.301 --> 26:13.071
<b>is when we can identify something shifting a little bit.</b>
26:13.071 --> 26:16.675
<b>So one of the big ones was the pivot,</b>
26:16.675 --> 26:19.477
<b>what we saw in the Middle East in terms of warfare was focused</b>
26:19.477 --> 26:22.581
<b>on drones. And so we're looking at this</b>
26:22.581 --> 26:24.983
<b>defence sector, we're saying the entire defence sector in</b>
26:24.983 --> 26:28.954
<b>Europe, much of it is focused on land warfare.</b>
26:28.954 --> 26:32.223
<b>And there's this big view that this land warfare</b>
26:32.223 --> 26:35.360
<b>will expand for five, 10 years, values</b>
26:35.360 --> 26:38.163
<b>are reflecting that. We're going, look at this example over</b>
26:38.163 --> 26:40.966
<b>here. This shows that this is an error.</b>
26:40.966 --> 26:43.435
<b>This is all going to be fought in the air.</b>
26:43.435 --> 26:46.771
<b>And that's when we can pounce in as short sellers and</b>
26:46.771 --> 26:48.106
<b>say, something is different here.</b>
26:48.106 --> 26:50.241
<b>There's this narrative violation.</b>
26:50.241 --> 26:53.345
<b>And values are very high. There's complacency.</b>
26:53.345 --> 26:54.913
<b>Let's start to bet on it the other way.</b>
26:54.913 --> 26:57.248
<b>To your question of when do we close that out, we're looking</b>
26:57.248 --> 27:00.619
<b>for expectations to come closer to what we think reality might</b>
27:00.619 --> 27:03.822
<b>be. As soon as that happens, our propensity is</b>
27:03.822 --> 27:05.156
<b>to try and move on.</b>
27:05.156 --> 27:08.360
<b>A good trick we found is to challenge each other</b>
27:08.360 --> 27:11.863
<b>and saying, okay, we're</b>
27:11.863 --> 27:15.700
<b>tempted to close this. You know, this tuck has dropped a lot.</b>
27:15.700 --> 27:17.736
<b>As you said, the chart has gone down.</b>
27:17.736 --> 27:21.039
<b>And is it now the time or is there more we can extract</b>
27:21.039 --> 27:23.074
<b>from that idea? Because those are two different skills.</b>
27:23.074 --> 27:25.610
<b>Finding the good idea. It could be the long as well.</b>
27:25.610 --> 27:28.613
<b>And also extracting the most alpha out of it.</b>
27:28.613 --> 27:31.383
<b>And one trick we've found is challenge yourself, okay.</b>
27:31.383 --> 27:33.184
<b>We think we want to exit the short.</b>
27:33.184 --> 27:35.053
<b>Would we be willing to go along?</b>
27:37.522 --> 27:40.825
<b>And sometimes those can turn out to be the best long ideas.</b>
27:40.825 --> 27:43.395
<b>Sometimes they're like, yeah, I want to cover the short, but I</b>
27:43.395 --> 27:45.864
<b>wouldn't go along for x, y, z reason.</b>
27:45.864 --> 27:48.533
<b>And those may be the reasons why you should actually stay</b>
27:48.533 --> 27:51.603
<b>involved in the short. So that's not an absolute exercise, but</b>
27:51.603 --> 27:53.705
<b>it's a good one we found.</b>
27:53.705 --> 27:56.007
<b>More often than not, leads us to the right action.</b>
27:56.007 --> 27:58.476
<b>Okay, 30 seconds each. Nic, I'm gonna go with you.</b>
27:58.476 --> 28:01.279
<b>What are you paying closest attention to in the next several</b>
28:01.279 --> 28:02.313
<b>months?</b>
28:02.313 --> 28:05.550
<b>I think just this growing tension around AI, you ask</b>
28:05.550 --> 28:08.486
<b>the people who build it, they'll say it's gonna do wonders for</b>
28:08.486 --> 28:11.956
<b>the world. You ask the average voter, especially in the U.S.</b>
28:11.956 --> 28:15.226
<b>Going into the midterm, they do not like this</b>
28:15.226 --> 28:17.829
<b>AI build out. They think it boosts their electricity bill.</b>
28:17.829 --> 28:19.964
<b>It's moving their interest rates up.</b>
28:19.964 --> 28:23.068
<b>It's costing them a lot while it may steal their job or maybe</b>
28:23.068 --> 28:25.670
<b>it will lead to something even worse.</b>
28:25.670 --> 28:28.773
<b>So I think this tension has always been</b>
28:28.773 --> 28:31.109
<b>there, but it feels like it's escalating.</b>
28:32.544 --> 28:35.680
<b>To a higher level, and it will have,</b>
28:35.680 --> 28:38.083
<b>however it resolves, we don't know how, we're gonna watch it</b>
28:38.083 --> 28:40.618
<b>very closely. It will have big implications for market</b>
28:40.618 --> 28:42.821
<b>leadership, so we're watching and going to adapt.</b>
28:44.122 --> 28:46.858
<b>But that is one of the main topics we've been talking about.</b>
28:46.858 --> 28:50.061
<b>Max, I was gonna ask you why we should be looking at this</b>
28:50.061 --> 28:52.263
<b>opportunity in this environment, but we don't have time.</b>
28:52.263 --> 28:54.332
<b>And I think you really both answered it very, very well</b>
28:54.332 --> 28:56.901
<b>through this discussion. So thank you both very much for being</b>
28:56.901 --> 28:59.637
<b>here. Fund and ETF, I might add as well.</b>
28:59.637 --> 29:01.673
<b>Thank you very much. Thank you.</b>
29:02.874 --> 29:04.943
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