FidelityConnects: The dividend playbook: Strategies that pay you back

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Hello, and welcome to Fidelity Connects.

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I'm Pamela Ritchie. We've got equity markets, and all markets

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actually, pretty much red across the boards right now.

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The market narrative has certainly shifted sharply in

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recent weeks with AI enthusiasm giving way to skepticism,

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certainly some skepticism.

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Adding to the uncertainty is some concern that the Federal

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Reserve may hold off on a third rate cut next

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month. What does this changing backdrop mean

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for the evolution of defensive stocks?

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Are they still playing the exact same role in portfolios,

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for instance? How does quality, the quality bias,

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fit into this environment at this point, especially

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as global markets take on a bit of a barbell structure, you

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could argue. We'll talk about that with our next guest.

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Joining us here today to explore some of these themes and

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discuss why the case for dividends may be stronger

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than before is portfolio manager, Ramona Persaud.

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Now, Ramona manages several Fidelity

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funds including Fidelity U.S.

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Dividend Fund and Fidelity Global Dividend Fund.

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Warm welcome to you, Ramona.

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Great to see you. How are you?

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I'm all right. Nice to see you too, Pamela.

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Great to have you join us here today.

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I'll just remind everyone joining us here today that this

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webcast features live French interpretation so do

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join us in either official language and send questions in for

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Ramona over the next little bit.

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Ramona, let's begin with the market story.

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It's a time of concern and for all of the reasons

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that we just pointed out there.

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Do you pay a lot of attention to this?

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What are you paying a lot of attention to right now?

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Your style is not really an AI type

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of setup. Tell us what you're paying attention to and always

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do pay attention to.

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Yeah, the core, thank you, Pamela, the core of my investment

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process is around the ways in which valuation

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and quality combine.

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I am trying to get the best quality business I can

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get for as reasonable a price as I can, and

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typically as low a price as I can.

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But if you get quality for a very low price there's usually

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usually a lot of controversy or apathy in that.

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I'm always paying attention to that combination

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including today.

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To expand on how you opened,

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I've thought of the market since mid last year

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actually as kind of an accordion

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where the market essentially expands and

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contracts around this element

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of glamour, and glamour is the really fast

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growing parts of the economy

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that are relatively

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unphased by the macro, and I mean relatively,

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not absolutely unphased but relative to the rest of the

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economy less subject to macro fluctuations.

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AI and for some

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time GLP-1 analogs have been considered

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centres like that.

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The market at times will concentrate

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into that sort of glamour hyper road stuff but then when

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it gets really expensive, typically,

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the market will then often have a moment like we're in

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today where it pauses, digests

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and then the accordion kind of opens up again

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and the market broadens out.

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Depending on what data points come our way

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the accordion has sort of had a kind

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of movement to it.

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It's felt that way for the last 18 months so what

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we're seeing today [audio cuts out].

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So 18 months, that's taking us back, we're going back to

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sort of summer of 2024.

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It seems like a long time ago, doesn't it, 'cause this year

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has felt rather long.

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That was sort of in the beginnings of the rate cutting cycle

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for the Fed.

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That's exactly right.

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Last year first half, and I only take us

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back so that we can really contextualize today, was

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very, very strongly glamour oriented and that's

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because we had come off of a long period of tech,

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in the era of rising interest rates and certainly glamour

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tech having a massive indigestion period.

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The market sort of got to a digestion point, if you will,

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where it could embrace glamour again and that worked

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spectacularly well in the first half.

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Then we got to a point where inflation

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essentially subsided and the market started to

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really want monetary easing, or anticipate monetary

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easing, which in the presence

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of tech and glamour tech being more

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richly valued. That was a powerful combination of

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monetary expectations changing and expensive glamour.

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The market just sort of hit glamour really hard

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and expanded back out into more economically

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sensitive areas. That was when that accordion

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idea really took hold in my mind. Okay, we're gonna move

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between these two states or these two orientations.

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Then early this year we saw

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DeepSeek, January 27th, which again, massive indigestion

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in glamour tech.

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The market started to try to find other areas to

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go. Then we got the shock and awe of

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tariffs and other sort of new administrative

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policies which got

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the market to refocus again on glamour because it

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was a place to hide.

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Again, this accordion feature, it's almost

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like the market's making some kind of music, if you will.

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What I've done with all of that is just constantly

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think about valuation, go right back to my process which is

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where is valuation getting more extended and

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where are there some opportunities?

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Today, and this has been the case since late last year,

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for instance, there's still some opportunity in U.S.

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versus developed non-U.S.

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markets. There's still pretty good valuation spread between

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U.S. and other developed countries like the UK,

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continental Europe, Canada, if you will.

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I've been searching in those areas for incremental

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stock ideas.

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One of the other features of this year, which you've been

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doing for years and and living, you're an international

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person, you've lived in lots of different places around the

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world, you've been living the international opportunities

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of of equity investing for much of your life.

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The rest of the world, it seems in North America anyway, has

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not. They've been invested in the U.S. for the last decade

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and plus. This was a year--

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And rightfully.

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--of diversifying but this suddenly

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was the diversification into international.

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I'm sure you were there waiting with open arms, or at least

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you have a comment on that.

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What's been hard in international

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only makes sense if you're sitting in the U.S., international

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means non-U.S. so I'm gonna say U.S.

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versus non-U.S., is that valuation

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difference between U.S. versus non-U.S.

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just kept opening and opening and opening over the last,

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basically coming out of the global financial crisis.

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You have to kind of contextualize it against

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interest rates. Coming out of global financial crisis

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the response, the solve, if you will, to global financial

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crisis was massive unprecedented monetary easing

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which was done at an exceptional level in

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the U.S.

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There was a little bit more discipline, it could be argued,

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in other parts of the world.

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At the margin the money was freer, perhaps

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,in the U.S. so it just lit

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a fuse under long duration cash flow,

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cash flows way out into the future which is another way of

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saying glamour.

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In that context that stuff took off

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in the U.S. and it made the U.S.

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market just take off.

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The valuation spread between the U.S.

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and non-U.S., and certainly U.S.

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and Europe, Europe felt very stagnated because they came down

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super hard on their banks relative to the

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U.S. which showed up in monetary policy to some extent.

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The valuation spread just kept expanding and expanding and

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expanding so the problem was not knowing when the turning

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point would be, if there would be a turning point.

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The way that I measure it is in terms of standard deviation.

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At the end of last year we got to 2 1/2

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standard deviations, U.S. versus EAFE, relative

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valuation spread, which was pretty meaningful, it's still

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around 2 today, and that's the only place in the

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market where I can get valuation spread, which is a measure

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of relative controversy or relative apathy or fear.

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There's still some decent opportunities ex-U.S.

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Now, in my U.S. strategies there's only so much I can do with

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that. I don't want to go too far outside of the U.S.

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but I might end up with more multinational businesses,

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more global businesses.

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If two companies are both global multinationals I

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might choose the European listed one versus

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the U.S. listed one because there's often valuation discount

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that doesn't make sense.

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Certainly, in my global strategies where I can be all over

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the world that was definitely a signal to

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... and I was already there, frankly, to be much

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less U.S. [audio cuts out].

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It's fascinating. I mean, there was some comments, I don't

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know, this is going back a few months, but if there was a

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barbell it was this idea that you can't ignore sort

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of U.S. tech AI

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but if you need to have in your portfolio,

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for instance, a grocery store it's a lot cheaper to have a

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European grocery store than it is to pay the valuations

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for the U.S.

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equivalent because there was a lifting of all boats across the

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U.S. markets.

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It can be. The typical example was less staples.

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I mean, there were some examples in staples.

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Unilever versus P&G was one example, or not

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necessarily Nestlé versus P&G so that was interesting.

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The examples showed up a lot more in industrials,

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Siemens versus GE.

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For the longest while you could buy Siemens a whole lot

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cheaper than its U.S equivalent.

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In industrials I found a lot of examples like that, or even in

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tech, definitely in tech, where U.S.

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tech had this you know very brilliant,

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shiny glamour umbrella that boosted valuations, some

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of it justified, some of it maybe not, versus

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there's just not a lot of European glamour tech.

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At the stock by stock level that is what contributed to like

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an aggregated 2 1/2 standard deviations coming into

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this year, that still is around 2 standard deviations.

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That is a way that as a global investor

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you can just really parse apart the global market to figure

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out where the arbitrage is, essentially.

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Hello, investors. We'll be back to the show in just a moment.

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I wanted to share that here at Fidelity, we value your opinion.

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DialoguesFidelity podcasts available on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever

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else you get your podcasts. Now back to today's show.

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That's completely fascinated.

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When you take a look at what investors want right

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now, because you'll see some who have decided

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it's the time to take gains.

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Again, these are headlines which you don't follow but there's

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this thought that glamour stocks, as you call them, have gone

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too far, time to take gains.

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That said, if you have a more total return dividend strategy

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you're still getting paid, you perhaps don't have to go and

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cash in chips in the same way.

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I wonder what your strategy means for a lot of investors

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right now who maybe have made gains elsewhere and

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are interested in a little more safety.

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Just at a very fundamental level the way that I

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approach investing is both to

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find excess return, which is what everyone wants,

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but also to do it in a way that is very sensitive

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to the risk embedded in those returns, which typically is

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proxied by volatility, volatility in the

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returns. That matters a lot in moments

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like recently where you've had drawdowns because

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in drawdowns when volatility is potentially higher,

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often higher, investor confidence

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is shaken. That almost always comes with

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churn that's not productive.

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Essentially, selling at the wrong time and and often buying

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at the wrong time.

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If you dampen volatility in the return profile you dampen

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churn, you increase investor trust,

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investor stickiness, which means that investors

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have a much higher chance of capturing the total

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ultimate return of the underlying

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fund in which they're invested.

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That's a big part of my core belief system, to

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really try to take care of the volatility profile and the

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returns as much as I can to increase investor trust,

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to reduce churn so that I can get them as close

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to the underlying fund's total return.

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In moments like this where there's fear or there's

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a transition or just the accordion's opening out, however

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you want to characterize it, where the market feels like it

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has to shift from one thing to something else and investors

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get really scared it can be

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really helpful to have some allocation, some proportion

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of your strategy

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in

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instruments or funds that are really volatility sensitive.

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We speak a lot about correlations because again, this is that

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moment where you don't sort of want to see lots of things go

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down at the same time, how do you

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manoeuvre through that, how do you make sure that you find

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enough places where you're investing

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... it's not correlated too badly

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to all the glamour stocks we're talking to.

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It seems like everything is AI right now in terms of a play.

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What's always been internalized in me that I now have external

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language for is what I call anti-correlation.

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I think it just comes out naturally of a process like this,

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it's just I'm now putting a label on it, which is it

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comes out of being valuation sensitive.

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That doesn't mean buying cheap for cheap's sake.

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Remember that I started out saying I'm trying to get the best

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business I can for a really good price

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so that drives a certain kind of quality and valuation

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sensitivity. When there's a valuation sensitivity,

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especially if you're in a market that has this momentum

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quality to it, there's a way

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that you end up in lower momentum names or

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literally anti-correlated to the strong momentum

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that's driving the market, especially

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when the momentum factor, if you will, is just

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getting reinforced and reinforced and reinforced in greater

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and greater sort of performance.

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If you kind of measure the valuation of momentum, which is

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a really interesting factor-on-factor thing to do,

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and that gets out of bounds, certainly from

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a statistical perspective, so it would be like sort of

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standard deviation of valuation and momentum, there's signals

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like this that if you're valuation sensitive will push you

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into anti-correlation.

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To make that more concrete [audio cuts out].

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Packaged food and spirits have gotten really cheap because

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people taking GLP-1 analogs no longer want to

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impulse drink and impulse eat bad stuff.

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Pharma has gotten really cheap because of administrative

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policy. Often the legacy

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low growth or ex-growth parts of tech can be cheap

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relative to the glamour stuff.

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Naturally, a valuation sensitive process gets pushed into

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anti-correlation and I've, on top of that, I've tried to be

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very intentional to be anticorrelated knowing that

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there's a ton of unintentional AI in most

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peoples' portfolios. You would have to be [audio cuts out]

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to get the AI out of your portfolio.

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Knowing that there's probably more in mine than I'm

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intending I've been trying to find either AI

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laggards or stuff that's quote-unquote anticorrelated

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like package food, something

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like a tech company

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in Asia that didn't get the AI chips

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quite right and got down to less than one times book

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and the sort of alpha odds go up a ton when you

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go below one times book which is what I learned looking at

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this company 15 years ago for the last 15, 20 years.

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Things like that really help  to protect the portfolio in

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moments when glamour gets just overextended.

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Other things [audio

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cuts out] undisturbed by glamour.

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There's anti-correlated and then there's maybe undisturbed,

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which are slightly different things.

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If AI and GLP-1s have been the areas of glamour

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for the last several years what are the parts of the market

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that no one's interested in or that have more controversy in them.

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the sort of low beta part of financials, or there've

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been some like smid-cap European health care names

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that no one really knows about, or certainly U.S.

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pharma, what are some parts of the market that people

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just don't care about and don't want to touch.

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That can tend to be protective against [audio cuts out].

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And ultimately can propel it to go higher

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when people are trying to shift out of

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and shift into something else, essentially.

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I mean, does that ...

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you're already there in a lot of those cases.

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It's a way to intentionally get some diversification

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especially with my thesis,

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if you will, having been since last year this

[00:18:30.400]

accordion feature to the market where it's essentially

[00:18:33.920]

sort of cycling in and cycling out of glamour.

[00:18:38.520]

The turning point is when you get ...

[00:18:41.480]

often the valuation of momentum just getting overextended.

[00:18:44.920]

Then the market will often just shift into something else and

[00:18:48.200]

to me, diversification has helped a lot

[00:18:51.640]

to keep the violence in my portfolios minimal.

[00:18:56.960]

GLP-1s to an extent, I mean,

[00:19:00.240]

as we understand it got a bit thrown out with the bathwater

[00:19:03.520]

because there was just ...

[00:19:04.840]

tell us about the policy side of it and then also perhaps just

[00:19:08.080]

being too overextended and glamorous for a period of time.

[00:19:11.280]

Where are they now?

[00:19:14.080]

I think there's less momentum in that than there has been in

[00:19:16.960]

AI. It definitely had a strong momentum

[00:19:20.160]

element to it a few years ago.

[00:19:21.800]

There

[00:19:25.120]

are different versions of these GLP-1 analogs.

[00:19:28.480]

There's more controversy in that

[00:19:31.600]

space than there was several years ago.

[00:19:33.680]

There's some decent valuations there now.

[00:19:35.520]

Eli Lilly has been the poster child

[00:19:38.800]

glamour stock but there have been some other stocks that have

[00:19:41.200]

really struggled despite having similar drugs.

[00:19:44.160]

There's more controversy now that makes it a

[00:19:47.280]

more interesting place to invest.

[00:19:49.760]

It hasn't kept up with the glamour of AI.

[00:19:52.880]

The controversy is around pricing

[00:19:56.160]

and around addressable market, whether the addressable

[00:19:59.600]

market is quite as large as we think it is.

[00:20:03.040]

There's lots of different views.

[00:20:04.720]

When you've got dispersion in views you can get some

[00:20:07.040]

dispersion in valuation.

[00:20:08.880]

What I have liked is less those companies

[00:20:12.560]

because to me it's hard to really call,

[00:20:16.800]

the range of outcomes seems wide.

[00:20:19.440]

I don't tend to be an early adopter to stuff.

[00:20:22.080]

My kids give me a really hard time about the fact that my

[00:20:24.880]

iPhone is, I don't know, four generations ago or something,

[00:20:27.760]

and I like it that way.

[00:20:30.400]

When there is new, super new cutting edge technology

[00:20:34.400]

such as that drug or AI

[00:20:38.880]

that's not my sweet spot.

[00:20:40.480]

My sweet spot is the stuff that's left.

[00:20:45.200]

Stuff that so much fear gets introduced to

[00:20:48.560]

it because of the leading edge stuff, which

[00:20:52.880]

people like Mark Schmehl are exceptional at.

[00:20:56.480]

I like the stuff that's left for dead, package

[00:20:59.760]

food, pharma, tech in Asia

[00:21:02.960]

that didn't get AI right and got left

[00:21:06.560]

behind, laggards, 'cause often there's

[00:21:10.480]

a pocket of valuation that just gives

[00:21:13.840]

you a lot of [indecipherable]  in those moments.

[00:21:17.840]

Dividends are sort of, I think, also the antithesis of the

[00:21:21.040]

accordion analogy that goes maybe

[00:21:24.480]

with glamour stocks. I mean, they tend to be pretty steady.

[00:21:26.720]

It's a bit shocking when a dividend's cut.

[00:21:28.960]

Sometimes they are but it's a big deal.

[00:21:31.160]

Yeah.

[00:21:33.920]

I guess you could argue though that your typical dividend

stock,

[00:21:35.760]

call it telcos, regulated utilities,

[00:21:38.880]

maybe health care pharma, those are

[00:21:42.080]

wrapped up in the accordion because they are anti-glamour.

[00:21:48.240]

Those are great source sources, typically, of anti-correlation.

[00:21:52.640]

To the extent you can get the valuations for those I have

[00:21:55.520]

leaned into them to try to just get me some diversification.

[00:21:59.360]

Large-cap pharma is a really good example where I can get

[00:22:03.280]

decent alpha odds from low valuation.

[00:22:05.360]

I can get great portfolio construction from

[00:22:09.520]

high free cash flow production

[00:22:12.880]

and low variability.

[00:22:14.880]

Those are measures of quality.

[00:22:16.400]

I get low valuation, high quality low beta.

[00:22:20.080]

From a portfolio construction perspective if you can stock

[00:22:22.600]

pick well that is an awesome place to be relative to the other

[00:22:25.920]

low beta high

[00:22:29.040]

dividend yield parts of the market.

[00:22:31.600]

Regulated utilities are very

[00:22:36.000]

sensitive to interest rates in a way

[00:22:39.280]

that large-cap pharma is not quite as much.

[00:22:42.080]

Staples have been really difficult so that's just

[00:22:45.360]

gotten very, very dislocated from a

[00:22:48.480]

structural fundamentals perspective.

[00:22:50.040]

I've sort of hidden out in large pharma.

[00:22:53.200]

It's not totally safe

[00:22:56.640]

because the administration has come after it but if you're

[00:22:59.440]

gonna be in cheap you have to take some kind of

[00:23:02.200]

[indecipherable].

[00:23:06.400]

In pharma, okay, fascinating. Would you say

[00:23:09.680]

the policy risk is settling down a little bit, there's a bit

[00:23:12.480]

more clarity there?

[00:23:17.040]

I think the word is still shock and awe.

[00:23:20.160]

I think it's like Whac-a-Mole, what

[00:23:26.800]

target are we going to

[00:23:31.600]

socialize next.

[00:23:32.960]

Socialize is the wrong word especially when talking about

[00:23:36.560]

this topic. I don't mean socialize like shared

[00:23:39.680]

costs, I mean what target are we going to

[00:23:42.880]

advertise next, what target are we going to

[00:23:46.240]

put the focus on next?

[00:23:47.920]

For a time it was health care

[00:23:51.680]

and drug pricing, and it may be again, but

[00:23:55.120]

it keeps moving around.

[00:23:58.320]

In so doing you get a ton of volatility.

[00:24:00.880]

You get some valuation [audio cuts out] and, frankly, the

[00:24:03.440]

market is a very sophisticated, complex,

[00:24:07.040]

highly intelligent system so the market

[00:24:10.640]

gets inured pretty quickly.

[00:24:13.520]

What I wait for is you get that initial few shocks of

[00:24:16.640]

volatility, the companies keep

[00:24:19.760]

adapting to the challenges and then

[00:24:22.880]

eventually the shock, the impact of the shock is lessened

[00:24:25.920]

because the market's more inured and that's when your eight

[00:24:28.880]

times earnings gets really rewarded.

[00:24:31.960]

Your strategy is something that you've honed and crafted and

[00:24:35.320]

talked about where it's come from and your approach, sometimes

[00:24:39.240]

that works well with some of your colleagues who have a

[00:24:42.200]

slightly different approach.

[00:24:43.720]

Tell us about that because it is, again, an interesting

[00:24:47.160]

moment where there are those who say we don't want to catch a

[00:24:49.720]

falling knife, we want to, you know, get out or get in but you

[00:24:52.680]

you don't want to miss some of the gains, I guess, for some

[00:24:55.320]

people that are going on in some of these glamour stocks.

[00:24:57.640]

How do you work with other portfolio managers

[00:25:01.080]

to learn from them but also potentially to kind of

[00:25:04.200]

pair up different styles together?

[00:25:08.480]

I'll step way back and say I think one of our

[00:25:12.160]

most maybe nuanced or least

[00:25:15.600]

tangible strengths the way that

[00:25:18.720]

we approach people and talent

[00:25:22.720]

is autonomy.

[00:25:24.960]

We have this way at Fidelity of just giving people

[00:25:28.080]

incredible levels, scary levels of responsibility almost, and

[00:25:33.320]

it comes with therefore so much trust.

[00:25:36.360]

There's this incredibly high trust that's conveyed

[00:25:39.800]

when you're given an assignment.

[00:25:43.440]

You hire bright, really motivated, hungry people

[00:25:46.640]

and you put that together with trust, it tends to work in your

[00:25:49.600]

favour. What that means is

[00:25:52.800]

I feel a deep sense of trust in being

[00:25:55.920]

able to pursue my goals, my

[00:25:59.360]

investment mandate in a way that's authentic to who I am as an

[00:26:02.480]

investor. The way I approach dividend investing is

[00:26:06.000]

not only am I looking for dividends I'm looking for really

[00:26:09.200]

good valuations and great companies.

[00:26:11.840]

If I can get some good dividends out of that that's a really

[00:26:14.080]

beautiful trifecta.

[00:26:15.520]

Other people, according to who they are, might approach

[00:26:18.800]

dividend investing where they really focus

[00:26:22.080]

on the dividends and not any other [audio cuts out].

[00:26:24.320]

I love about Fidelity is we are put

[00:26:27.520]

in a position of pursuing the mandate according to our

[00:26:31.200]

intrinsic strengths.

[00:26:33.280]

In so doing with the right management, if you will, and the

[00:26:35.920]

right guardrails we're able to

[00:26:39.040]

build this diverse ecosystem of

[00:26:42.160]

investment styles and outcomes that

[00:26:45.360]

works, I believe works really well for the end investor.

[00:26:48.120]

That's kind of like an overview question.

[00:26:50.160]

How I work with the other portfolio managers is the

[00:26:53.440]

three people in the offices that way, they

[00:26:56.640]

all have dividend mandates.

[00:26:58.080]

We all do them extremely differently.

[00:26:59.760]

There's one person who is not nearly as valuation sensitive as

[00:27:02.880]

I am. He is all about excess return.

[00:27:07.600]

He will just have a very different style from me and

[00:27:10.800]

have very successful outcomes.

[00:27:13.600]

The person in the office next to me is much, much, much more

[00:27:16.240]

valuation sensitive so he will go for extremely

[00:27:19.360]

low valuations and also be successful.

[00:27:23.800]

I tend to like complexity so I'll take a bunch of

[00:27:27.640]

factors and combine them and, essentially, I'm constantly

[00:27:29.800]

trying to optimize factors. My optimization is around quality,

[00:27:33.320]

value and dividends at a

[00:27:36.680]

first level. Then at a second level

[00:27:40.600]

it's around the volatility embedded

[00:27:43.720]

in that return stream, downside protection, up

[00:27:46.840]

and down capture.

[00:27:48.200]

I just love taking ton of variables and putting them together

[00:27:50.920]

and seeing what I do. We all do it differently and we all end

[00:27:53.960]

up having really successful outcomes because the guardrails

[00:27:56.680]

are very well protected.

[00:27:58.200]

I love being able to learn from them because I think we help

[00:28:01.080]

to inform each other's styles and processes.

[00:28:04.480]

What would you say if people that are joining you here today

[00:28:07.520]

to sort of look out to what is your horizon?

[00:28:10.960]

I know it's a bit of a broad question but for those

[00:28:14.080]

that might want to look a little past, say, the next month

[00:28:17.360]

or two what would you say your horizon

[00:28:20.480]

is?

[00:28:24.320]

Concretely, it is probably three to five

[00:28:27.520]

years and my turnover would show that.

[00:28:30.240]

Turnover in my funds is fairly low.

[00:28:34.240]

I like to think of companies through a market

[00:28:37.520]

cycle and I like to think of the returns in my funds

[00:28:40.640]

through a market cycle. The alpha that I produce in my

[00:28:43.360]

strategies is not linear.

[00:28:45.120]

It has a lumpy quality to it because the style of my funds

[00:28:48.560]

are fairly ...

[00:28:50.320]

they're not linear, they're fairly specific.

[00:28:52.400]

My funds are conservative, alpha driven and also

[00:28:55.520]

downside protection driven, which means that later in an

[00:28:58.240]

economic cycle there's plenty of alpha in a strategy like

[00:29:01.280]

this. Through a recession  lots and lots of alpha early cycle

[00:29:04.560]

can be harder.

[00:29:05.520]

Then mid to late, stockpicking really shines so I can pick up a lot of alpha

[00:29:10.440]

during mid to late, and then into late and recession again so

[00:29:13.560]

over the course of a market cycle I should be able to produce,

[00:29:16.000]

this is the way that I think of what's possible, an

[00:29:21.080]

alpha profile that is again, not linear,

[00:29:24.680]

has a certain shape to it but is beneficial

[00:29:28.200]

to the end investor, especially on a risk-adjusted basis.

[00:29:33.320]

When I think about time horizon I'm really looking

[00:29:36.600]

market cycle to market cycle which can be 3, 5

[00:29:40.120]

but in my mind too I want really strong 10-year returns,

[00:29:44.840]

10+-year returns for my end investors.

[00:29:48.040]

Ramona Persaud, it's such a pleasure to speak with you and to

[00:29:50.280]

hear your calm voice and deep thinking

[00:29:53.640]

in these markets right now 'cause it's easy to kind of

[00:29:56.840]

flit around and you're a real anchor there.

[00:29:58.840]

Thank you for joining us.

[00:30:00.520]

My pleasure. Thanks, Pamela.

[00:30:03.200]

Thanks for watching or listening to the Fidelity Connects

[00:30:07.120]

podcast. Now if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to Fidelity

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And if you like what you're hearing, please leave a review or a five-star

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We'll end today's show with a short disclaimer.

[00:30:40.080]

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the participants,

[00:30:43.920]

and do not necessarily reflect those of Fidelity Investments Canada ULC or

[00:30:47.840]

its affiliates. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not

[00:30:51.840]

be construed as investment, tax, or legal advice.

[00:30:54.400]

It is not an offer to sell or buy.

[00:30:56.720]

Or an endorsement, recommendation, or sponsorship of any entity or securities

[00:31:01.040]

cited. Read a fund's prospectus before investing, funds are not guaranteed.

[00:31:05.840]

Their values change frequently, and past performance may not be repeated.

[00:31:09.400]

Fees, expenses, and commissions are all associated

[00:31:11.840]

with fund investments.

[00:31:14.000]

Thanks again. We'll see you next time.